Instructors - Demand?

[Shiny Side Up]

It's hard to start an FTU essentially because TC

In the big scheme of things though, its not that hard. It just takes time and money. If that's the measure of what's hard, phone up an insurance company and tell them you want to insure an airplane that you're going to use for flight training, and that you're working on starting a school, or get your local airport management board to let you start one. Those two things are by comparison harder by several orders of magnitude.

That's not to say TC can't be a royal PITA, lord knows I've been through the processes of writing ops manuals and MCMs. I used to think that it was the worst part of it too. I was wrong.

[Rookie50]

It's hard to start an FTU essentially because TC has a mandate to prevent the public being "harmed" by flight training that doesn't meet the relevant standards, and doing so by zealously making sure that the paperwork surrounding the training is perfect. It's a classic case of measuring what is measurable rather than what is important.

Starting any kind of business from scratch and making a go is hard. But it's possible if too stubborn (or dumb in my case) to quit.

Might sound arrogant, and I apologize if off topic, but most people in Canada look at successful business owners and immediately say one of 2 things: A) you're lucky B) you're corrupt.

Never crosses their minds the total dedication, commitment, brutal hours at times, a million headaches, and self sacrifice for years before even turning profitable. It's a high price, and most aren't willing to go there, but love to criticize those who do.

[photofly]

I've met nobody in Canada who looks at a successful business and says either you're lucky, or corrupt.

[Rookie50]

I've met nobody in Canada who looks at a successful business and says either you're lucky, or corrupt.

Wow. Good for you.

[Shiny Side Up]

I've met nobody in Canada who looks at a successful business and says either you're lucky, or corrupt.

Even as an avowed socialist I don't even think those things, but then I've discovered that a lot of people think a lot of weird things. That said, I have to point out the delicious irony in that Rookie continually will have determined that all flight schools are also corrupt...

[Rookie50]

I've met nobody in Canada who looks at a successful business and says either you're lucky, or corrupt.

Even as an avowed socialist I don't even think those things, but then I've discovered that a lot of people think a lot of weird things. That said, I have to point out the delicious irony in that Rookie continually will have determined that all flight schools are also corrupt...

I've never said that Every flight school is corrupt. I've disagree with the practice SOME have of taking pre PPL students on long X - countries for "experience reasons".

I can immediately name, without looking up a thing, three fatal accidents directly tied to this practice.

[Aviatard]

I can immediately name, without looking up a thing, three fatal accidents directly tied to this practice.

Go on ...

[5x5]

It's hard to s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶ run an FTU essentially because TC has a mandate to prevent the public being "harmed" by flight training that doesn't meet the relevant standards, and doing so by zealously making sure that the paperwork surrounding the training is perfect. It's a classic case of measuring what is measurable rather than what is important.

Other than my little edit, I don't believe a truer statement has been made on this forum.

[Rookie50]

I can immediately name, without looking up a thing, three fatal accidents directly tied to this practice.

Go on ...

Pennsylvania just happened, east of YKZ few years back, talked about here, and one I read in flying mag think California, one plane in a line of students hit a mountain, didn't know where they were.

All at night, go figure, 2 crap weather too.

Look them up, I'm sure there are more.

[photofly]

Assuming you mean the Algonquin Park crash in the rented 150, how was that tied to "of taking pre PPL students on long X - countries for "experience reasons"? The pilot wasn't a student, and hadn't been taken on any long cross countries pre-PPL.

[Rookie50]

Assuming you mean the Algonquin Park crash in the rented 150, how was that tied to "of taking pre PPL students on long X - countries for "experience reasons"? The pilot wasn't a student, and hadn't been taken on any long cross countries pre-PPL.

Not that one. TO Airways (I think them) crash near Peterborough. Night, rainy IMC. Low time instructor.

Ring any bells with the Pennsylvania crash now? Almost indentical in many respects.

[Aviatard]

Assuming you mean the Algonquin Park crash in the rented 150, how was that tied to "of taking pre PPL students on long X - countries for "experience reasons"? The pilot wasn't a student, and hadn't been taken on any long cross countries pre-PPL.

Not that one. TO Airways (I think them) crash near Peterborough. Night, rainy IMC. Low time instructor.

Ring any bells with the Pennsylvania crash now? Almost indentical in many respects.

I think you mean the Seneca College Bonanza crash:
http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r ... 0o0240.asp


Not really identical: The purpose of the flight was to fly at night under visual flight rules (VFR) to the Kingston Airport (CYGK) to practise instrument flight rules (IFR) approaches before returning to Toronto/Buttonville Municipal Airport (CYKZ) later in the evening. It was planned that one student would fly from the left seat to CYGK while the other was seated in the back. They would switch at CYGK and the second student would fly simulated instrument approaches. The students would switch seats again for the return flight. The instructor was the pilot–in–command and was seated in the right seat.


These weren't PPL students getting "experience", they were commercial pilots working on their IFR. Still, not a good situation but doesn't really fit the others you mentioned.

[Rookie50]

Assuming you mean the Algonquin Park crash in the rented 150, how was that tied to "of taking pre PPL students on long X - countries for "experience reasons"? The pilot wasn't a student, and hadn't been taken on any long cross countries pre-PPL.

Not that one. TO Airways (I think them) crash near Peterborough. Night, rainy IMC. Low time instructor.

Ring any bells with the Pennsylvania crash now? Almost indentical in many respects.

I think you mean the Seneca College Bonanza crash:
http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r ... 0o0240.asp


Not really identical: The purpose of the flight was to fly at night under visual flight rules (VFR) to the Kingston Airport (CYGK) to practise instrument flight rules (IFR) approaches before returning to Toronto/Buttonville Municipal Airport (CYKZ) later in the evening. It was planned that one student would fly from the left seat to CYGK while the other was seated in the back. They would switch at CYGK and the second student would fly simulated instrument approaches. The students would switch seats again for the return flight. The instructor was the pilot–in–command and was seated in the right seat.


These weren't PPL students getting "experience", they were commercial pilots working on their IFR. Still, not a good situation but doesn't really fit the others you mentioned.

That's the one, and I stand corrected on the student status. Some disturbing similarities though, in terms of the PIC experience, weather, night, risk management decisions applied, pressure to return, etc....

[Rookie50]

This is the other one I remember reading, dangers of a convey with similiar tail #'s.

http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/acci ... n-identity

[JungianJugular]

Hi all

I have read a number of the threads and many speak about the pro's and cons of instruction.
My question is, is there a demand for instructors in Canada? Asking in terms of a career instructor, not as a stepping stone for hour building.

Regards

Why not? There are few career instructors out there, so I'd imagine there being a lot of opportunities for you. I'm going to start my FI rating soon. Looking forward to seeing what doors open ahead!

[marakii]

Couple of things,

Is there more demand for instructors and being a fairly newly hired class 4 instructor I don't have any students yet. Is it normal for new class 4s to start off slow.

Like to hear from other new instructors and how long did it take them to get going?

Thanks