OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

This forum has been developed to discuss flight instruction/University and College programs.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore

Post Reply
User avatar
EPR
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:38 am
Location: South of 60, finally!

OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by EPR »

---------- ADS -----------
 
Keep the dirty side down.
ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 6309
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by ahramin »

So they can't retain instructors, can't train new ones, can't pay more, can't charge more ... but they are turning away customers who want to spend money there. Sounds like a business that just can't operate in the present times.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5931
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by digits_ »

I''m sure a lot of instructors would love to work at a place that is threatening to close down. Great way to attract people!
"We haven't raised salaries in, I don't even know, years. It's frightening what these guys make," said Swaffer. "This is not a rich kid's hobby. These guys are struggling to make a living."
They sure know how to attract new employees!

Why do airlines have a say in the salary of the instructors of OFC?

If the salary isn't high enough to attract 250 hour instructors, why would retired airline pilots do it for that price?
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
trey kule
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4762
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by trey kule »

If the salary isn't high enough to attract 250 hour instructors, why would retired airline pilots do it for that price?
I do not think they will. I suspect the thinking is that retired airline pilots do not “need” the money, so will work for diddly.
I also dont think many retired airline pilots will put up with the working conditions.


For the last few decades, FTUs have, in many many instances, abused their instructors. Worked them to exhaustion with 60 -70 hour weeks for starvation wages.

There is an obvious solution, but the FTUs do not seem to want to look at that, because, you know, it would mean raising prices
---------- ADS -----------
 
Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
455tt
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by 455tt »

Didn't the OFC at one time partner with a local college?

Setting up joint flight training/academic programs for credit with a local college or university has been used successfully by many FTU's across Canada that might otherwise have failed. There are plenty of successful models of this in Ontario - Seneca, Confederation College, Conestoga College etc. to name a few that could be emulated. It would bring in more students, raise salaries to attract and maintain career instructors, get more funding from government etc.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4403
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by rookiepilot »

Raise. Prices. Not. Complicated.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4053
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by PilotDAR »

I noticed the photo of the 150 which accompanied the article. Hmmm, would I, as a new client, be attracted to learn to fly in that? I'm confident that it's maintained mechanically, better than aesthetically, but at least, use a can of spray paint on the cowl, it only takes an hour!

I've been flying for many decades, though the airline route has never been attractive to me. I could go into instructing, and, I could afford to do it for diddly, if I chose. However, I was doing it for fair pay last summer, when the pilot flying (my student, so to speak) allowed an error to affect our flight, in a way which I could not correct in time. Six months later, I'm still recovering from the crash - would it have been worth it, had I been working for diddly? No, not really. It was my time that day, and then a number of months in hospital, and now, a slower life - the compensation has to be worth it for the instructor, both for their time then, and the risk they take!

Students, and candidate pilots:
Poor piloting can be life changing in a very bad way, so pilot well. To pilot well, you'll have to be taught well. Instructors who teach well will expect to be paid well - 'sounds fair doesn't it? Expect to pay for the quality service you expect to receive! You'll go to a restaurant, and if the service and meal are even close to acceptable, you'll tip the server, and think that's normal. If instructors felt rewarded for their quality teaching, they'd be less attracted away to airline jobs so fast....

Flight training is not where you want to be economizing!
---------- ADS -----------
 
linecrew
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1887
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:53 am
Location: On final so get off the damn runway!

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by linecrew »

rookiepilot wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:58 pm Raise. Prices. Not. Complicated.
It's never, ever that simple. Their prices are already way high due to the various operating expenses. If they raise rates any higher then they will certainly lose more customers than they will attract, a sure fire way to bankruptcy, and I'm sure they are well aware of this.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Squaretail
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by Squaretail »

Ultimately there is no market for recreational flight training in Canada. As above, customers already feel that flight training is “too expensive” so raising prices to accommodate increased costs of doing business reduces business in an eventual death spiral of said business. As the current trend in Canada dictates, smaller flight schools will steadily disappear. There are a multitude of reasons for this trend.
---------- ADS -----------
 
I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.
gwagen
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:30 am

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by gwagen »

Squaretail wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:20 pm Ultimately there is no market for recreational flight training in Canada. As above, customers already feel that flight training is “too expensive” so raising prices to accommodate increased costs of doing business reduces business in an eventual death spiral of said business. As the current trend in Canada dictates, smaller flight schools will steadily disappear. There are a multitude of reasons for this trend.
Funny the three schools at my home airport who cater to 95% recreational students have their airplanes booked solid save for the bad weather days. Even then they’re pretty booked.

GA flying has certainly declined but in the last three years locally it has seen a surprising upswing.

It’s not dead yet and I hope more people will take it up as the economy continues to improve.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Squaretail
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by Squaretail »

I should have said the market is small and shrinking as opposed to “none”. As usual, it also depends on local demands. Paradoxically, some schools may see an increase in business, as customers gravitate to where flight training providers remain. One also might wonder how profitable even busy flight training units are.
---------- ADS -----------
 
I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.
User avatar
youhavecontrol
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:17 am

Re: OFC Needs To Get Creative $$

Post by youhavecontrol »

Better financing options seem to be the only solution to attract new domestic pilots. ..especially ones that don't want to go through a diploma or university program. I had to work for years in the oilfield to pay for my tuition because I couldn't even get more than 15% of my tuition in loans from the Government.. and that was for an Associate of Arts in Aviation program. When I went to the bank for a bit more help later on, I found out the bank's interest rate was lower than the government loans... and they delivered the cash to me in 1 day.. compared to 3 months and a stack more paperwork and signatures. It's pathetic really... compared to other professions. To be a pilot, you get very little financial help whatsoever unless you qualify for a scholarship... which are pretty few and far between depending on where you are hoping to train. ..and even if you do get a scholarship, they're usually just a drop in the bucket. For example, I qualified for a $200 scholarship from my flying club.

If I wasn't so crazy about flying airplanes, I would have taken that free-tuition offer my old construction company gave me to become a crane operator.
---------- ADS -----------
 
"I found that Right Rudder you kept asking for."
Post Reply

Return to “Flight Training”