Landing Long (on purpose)!

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Spinwmts
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Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by Spinwmts »

here is a minutiae Nick-picky question just to get others take:

I'm flying out to Winnipeg in a few weeks (for the first time). The FBO that I'm staying at is at the end of runway 18 (11,000'). If I get assigned this rwy I could easily land on the last 1/4 of it, and would save myself 30 minutes of taxi time. In this situation would you request to land past runway 13? Will tower instruct me to land further down rwy 18? Also, if I choose to land long (say where the blue x is) would that screw up ATC's plans for me?
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

If you land on TXY C you will certainly expedite your arrival INTO the tower for a talk,,,,
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photofly
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by photofly »

This really shouldn't raise your blood pressure.

"GABC request long landing"

Either:
"GABC approved as requested", or
"GABC negative, traffic 1 mile final behind you"
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Last edited by photofly on Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
lownslow
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by lownslow »

You can always ask and they'll usually approve (they also don't want you taxiing forever), but the prevailing winds also seldom favour 18. Realistically you can picture yourself coming in on 31 or 36, exiting at the intersection to backtrack whichever runway you didn't land on, to taxiway C.
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Posthumane
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by Posthumane »

It doesn't hurt to ask, and if it's not too busy they will likely try to accommodate your request. Last time I flew there in a small aircraft, I landed 36 and requested a back track on the runway to exit on Charlie (I was also going to the Esso). There was nobody behind me on final so they allowed it.
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digits_
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by digits_ »

Why would you even have to ask for a long landing? Unless you get cleared to land with a hold short instruction of RWY 13/31, you can land at the numbers of 36 if you manage to not go off the end of the runway.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by Spinwmts »

digits_ wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:31 am Why would you even have to ask for a long landing? Unless you get cleared to land with a hold short instruction of RWY 13/31, you can land at the numbers of 36 if you manage to not go off the end of the runway.
Agreed, technically I'm cleared to land anywhere on the runway, I'm just wondering if landing unusually long would throw off ATC? from above it sounds like a good practice is to ask or at least inform tower of your intentions. Just curious what the practice is a bigger airport YWG.
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lownslow
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by lownslow »

digits_ wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:31 am Why would you even have to ask for a long landing?
ATC is expecting you to exit at the first convenient taxiway and while they won't know your exact landing roll a small plane likely won't take all 11,000 feet. Someone else's taxi instruction could be based on the premise that you'll probably exit by Kilo, or whatever. It's just a matter of being a good neighbour.
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digits_
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by digits_ »

Spinwmts wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:17 am Agreed, technically I'm cleared to land anywhere on the runway, I'm just wondering if landing unusually long would throw off ATC? from above it sounds like a good practice is to ask or at least inform tower of your intentions. Just curious what the practice is a bigger airport YWG.
During rush hour it might be a good practice to tell them/ask them, but most of the time they don't care. If they did, half of the smaller planes landing at CYWG would get daily CADORs. If RWY 18 is in use and you are going to apron 2 or 4, they even suggest it frequently, as it cuts down on taxi time and makes things go so much smoother.
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digits_
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by digits_ »

lownslow wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:19 am
digits_ wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:31 am Why would you even have to ask for a long landing?
ATC is expecting you to exit at the first convenient taxiway and while they won't know your exact landing roll a small plane likely won't take all 11,000 feet. Someone else's taxi instruction could be based on the premise that you'll probably exit by Kilo, or whatever. It's just a matter of being a good neighbour.
If that's the case, they would tell you "plan Kilo for exit" or mention it in some other way. And even then you can land at the end of the runway and backtrack to kilo if necessary. But granted, that would defeat the purpose of a long landing.
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lownslow
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by lownslow »

I guess I just don't believe in surprising people where airplanes are involved.
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digits_
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by digits_ »

lownslow wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:40 am I guess I just don't believe in surprising people where airplanes are involved.
I would hardly call landing on a runway you are cleared to land on, surprising someone. And as mentioned before, in CYWG it really is a common practice. I'd like to guess that ATC would be more surprised that you touch down at the markers on rwy 18 on a VFR day in a small airplane if you are going to apron 2/4.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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photofly
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by photofly »

digits_ wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:08 am
lownslow wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:40 am I guess I just don't believe in surprising people where airplanes are involved.
I would hardly call landing on a runway you are cleared to land on, surprising someone.
You can always be un-cleared, and told to pull up and go around, if there's someone bigger and faster than you on short final and you're busy "air-taxiing" your 172 way down two miles of runway. That might surprise you!
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Spinwmts
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by Spinwmts »

[/quote]
I would hardly call landing on a runway you are cleared to land on, surprising someone. And as mentioned before, in CYWG it really is a common practice. I'd like to guess that ATC would be more surprised that you touch down at the markers on rwy 18 on a VFR day in a small airplane if you are going to apron 2/4.
[/quote]

If you touched down on the numbers on 18 for Apron 2/4, just request TO w intentions to land on the other set of numbers :)
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digits_
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:14 am
digits_ wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:08 am
lownslow wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:40 am I guess I just don't believe in surprising people where airplanes are involved.
I would hardly call landing on a runway you are cleared to land on, surprising someone.
You can always be un-cleared, and told to pull up and go around, if there's someone bigger and faster than you on short final and you're busy "air-taxiing" your 172 way down two miles of runway. That might surprise you!
That is correct, and that might be surprising. But the actually landing on a runway I am cleared to land on, does not surprise me. If that does surprise a pilot, that pilot should probably not be flying :wink:
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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Schooner69A
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by Schooner69A »

You: "Going to Signature; I'll be landing long"
Them: "Yay or nay"
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PilotDAR
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by PilotDAR »

What Schooner, and others have said - state your intention, listen for a response from tower which seems to permit, or requests you do otherwise. If you are not being told to land to hold short (which would require your explicit acceptance anyway), the whole runway is yours. Yeah, don't land short, and roll the length, that's just rude. If you want to play, ask; "Tower, is there anyone behind me? Or, can I take my time on the runway?". If there's no one behind you, and tower allows you the full length, use the opportunity to practice soft field landing, holding it off with power, and spot landing, you might get a few touch and goes down the length - just don't forget to allow enough to stop at the far end!
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TheRealMcCoy
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by TheRealMcCoy »

Put're down on the numbers, practice wheelies for the remainder of the runway to your taxiway.
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lhalliday
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by lhalliday »

You're PIC, and if landing long is the right thing to do, ask Tower. The worst they can do is say No.

My last long landing was at Kamloops. Straight in on 09, needed Echo at the far end of the 8000 foot runway. I coordinated a long landing with Kamloops Radio, floated along for a while, finally pulled the power and let her settle to the runway. Except that the main runway at my home airport (Langley) is 2100 feet, the reflexes kicked in, my absurdly long landing was about 3000 feet. :lol:

...laura
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Re: Landing Long (on purpose)!

Post by A346Dude »

digits_ wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:31 am Why would you even have to ask for a long landing? Unless you get cleared to land with a hold short instruction of RWY 13/31, you can land at the numbers of 36 if you manage to not go off the end of the runway.
I don't know how things run normally at YWG, but at many airports the difference between aiming for and making the first available exit versus the third one can easily mean the airliner behind you going around. It can also mean the guy who is waiting to take-off now has to wait for the lander behind you, and maybe the 2 or 3 after that, when there was a gap if had you made the first exit. Long landings can often be accommodated but if it is not specifically approved (or it's a local procedure that everyone lands long), you should be aiming to make the first possible exit.
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