urgent: Sault college or Confederation

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marc s
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urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by marc s »

Hey Guys,
I am 31 YEARS Old, This week I started 1st year Aviation program @ sault college, However, yesterday I got a call from Confederation, they said there is a seat available for me. I want to end up in an airline.
I know that in Confed I have to do my multi and multi IFR privately and I have no problem with that

I have couple questions:
1) when it comes to jobs, I heard that Sault has a better reputation when it comes to AIRLINES, some of the kids get direct entry to Jazz just after Graduation
Any recent Confed Grad could say if you guys find airline jobs or have any agreements with airlines

2) As I am 31 YEARS OLD, is it better to get it done in 2 years at Confed ? or the 1 year difference between Sault and confed is not gonna make a difference?

3) alot of students at sault don't finish on time for some reason, is there delay as well @ confed?

4) how many instructors available now @ confed?
Thanks
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lownslow
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by lownslow »

The delay comes from the candidate; you know what you have to get done (flying) so do it. I’m more familiar with Sault’s structure though right now the smart money *may* be on saving a year.
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nwopilot
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by nwopilot »

Go to confed!!! Sault college students are taking 4 to almost 5 years to finish these days!!!! The atmosphere at sault college is terrible.

Confed is also slightly behind beacuse of the strike last year, but only by a few months. Although the website says confed is a 2.5 year program, in reality its normally only 18 months from start to finish (Sept 2018 start, April 2019 finish). It may be 2 extra months after that if wx is bad, but compared to sault college its wayyyyyyy lesss of a delay.

It takes sault college students nearly a year to do just a multi/ifr!!!!!!!

After I left confed I went to cornwall and got my multi, and upgraded my group 3 to a group 1 in only 4 days!!!!! It cost me around $3700.

4 days VS 1 year!!!!

All of the instructors at confed are also really kind and supportive.

Confed also has really good reputation in industry.

GO TO CONFED!!!! In 21 months you could have everything finished (including mifr), as opposed to spending 4 years at sault!!!! You will save money by going to confed aswell beacuse you wont have to pay the extra tuition and living expenses be spending extra years at sault.

GO TO CONFED!
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marc s
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by marc s »

nwopilot wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:44 pm
Go to confed!!! Sault college students are taking 4 to almost 5 years to finish these days!!!! The atmosphere at sault college is terrible.

Confed is also slightly behind beacuse of the strike last year, but only by a few months. Although the website says confed is a 2.5 year program, in reality its normally only 18 months from start to finish (Sept 2018 start, April 2019 finish). It may be 2 extra months after that if wx is bad, but compared to sault college its wayyyyyyy lesss of a delay.

It takes sault college students nearly a year to do just a multi/ifr!!!!!!!

After I left confed I went to cornwall and got my multi, and upgraded my group 3 to a group 1 in only 4 days!!!!! It cost me around $3700.

4 days VS 1 year!!!!

All of the instructors at confed are also really kind and supportive.

Confed also has really good reputation in industry.

GO TO CONFED!!!! In 21 months you could have everything finished (including mifr), as opposed to spending 4 years at sault!!!! You will save money by going to confed aswell beacuse you wont have to pay the extra tuition and living expenses be spending extra years at sault.

GO TO CONFED!
thanks for the info
what about airline jobs? any idea if they get jobs right away or they have to build hours???
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marc s
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by marc s »

lownslow wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:30 pm
The delay comes from the candidate; you know what you have to get done (flying) so do it. I’m more familiar with Sault’s structure though right now the smart money *may* be on saving a year.
THanks
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flyingcanuck
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by flyingcanuck »

marc s wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:20 pm
Hey Guys,
I am 31 YEARS Old, This week I started 1st year Aviation program @ sault college, However, yesterday I got a call from Confederation, they said there is a seat available for me. I want to end up in an airline.
I know that in Confed I have to do my multi and multi IFR privately and I have no problem with that

I have couple questions:
1) when it comes to jobs, I heard that Sault has a better reputation when it comes to AIRLINES, some of the kids get direct entry to Jazz just after Graduation
Any recent Confed Grad could say if you guys find airline jobs or have any agreements with airlines

2) As I am 31 YEARS OLD, is it better to get it done in 2 years at Confed ? or the 1 year difference between Sault and confed is not gonna make a difference?

3) alot of students at sault don't finish on time for some reason, is there delay as well @ confed?

4) how many instructors available now @ confed?
Thanks

I'm a Sault grad, at an airline now

Sault good
  • I like the teaching style, they are very in depth
    The Zlin is fun
    The classes are hard but I came out knowing alot more than friends from normal flight schools
    Jazz for example takes alot more from here than Confed...
    My year Jazz took 10+, seems at least 5 or so this year maybe more.
    Also a pathway to Porter (not a job but connections)
Sault bad
  • Lack of instructors, so its slower now
    Too many rules, but i heard managment has changed a bit so its better
    Environment has been getting better since I was there from what I have heard from friends who work there
    It can def take longer than the 3 years (3.5-4) depending on work ethic
Overall its a good middle ground. Not too expensive like Seneca, but has enough MIFR and quality that find is better than Confed, and airlines like the diploma for sure. I know I am biased but Sault has a good reputation.

Go to confed? Well from what ive heard they are lacking a ton of instructors and still take in 100 studetns so they are super behind. You dont get a MIFR, just a single so you need to go get yours on your own dime. Sault will give you a better shot at an airline. Both make good pilots, I think that while you save a year, I think Sault looks better. If youre in a rush, prob confed then, youll get to work faster and gain experience, which will get you to the airline goal.

Being 33: That dont really matter, either program will be challenging, your age doesnt matter plus 33 isnt old. It might mean you wont make it as far in 20 years at AC but it wont stop you at all, it might even give you teh benefit of being more "mature" and life experienced.
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flyingjerry
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by flyingjerry »

I can't comment on either but I do know that I went to one of the high volume traditional flight schools and cornwall for the M/IFR and it was less than a year from my first flight lesson to having a job on a twin turbine aircraft. From what I know the remainder of the class that doesn't get chosen by the airlines end up in the same position needing to build time as everyone else.

If you smash out all your ratings in 8-10 months at a traditional flight school then timebuild for 2 years in the right seat of some light twin you will have 1000 hours by the time you would hopefully be graduating from Sault.

Just an idea.
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marc s
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by marc s »

flyingcanuck wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:10 pm
marc s wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:20 pm
Hey Guys,
I am 31 YEARS Old, This week I started 1st year Aviation program @ sault college, However, yesterday I got a call from Confederation, they said there is a seat available for me. I want to end up in an airline.
I know that in Confed I have to do my multi and multi IFR privately and I have no problem with that

I have couple questions:
1) when it comes to jobs, I heard that Sault has a better reputation when it comes to AIRLINES, some of the kids get direct entry to Jazz just after Graduation
Any recent Confed Grad could say if you guys find airline jobs or have any agreements with airlines

2) As I am 31 YEARS OLD, is it better to get it done in 2 years at Confed ? or the 1 year difference between Sault and confed is not gonna make a difference?

3) alot of students at sault don't finish on time for some reason, is there delay as well @ confed?

4) how many instructors available now @ confed?
Thanks

I'm a Sault grad, at an airline now

Sault good
  • I like the teaching style, they are very in depth
    The Zlin is fun
    The classes are hard but I came out knowing alot more than friends from normal flight schools
    Jazz for example takes alot more from here than Confed...
    My year Jazz took 10+, seems at least 5 or so this year maybe more.
    Also a pathway to Porter (not a job but connections)
Sault bad
  • Lack of instructors, so its slower now
    Too many rules, but i heard managment has changed a bit so its better
    Environment has been getting better since I was there from what I have heard from friends who work there
    It can def take longer than the 3 years (3.5-4) depending on work ethic
Overall its a good middle ground. Not too expensive like Seneca, but has enough MIFR and quality that find is better than Confed, and airlines like the diploma for sure. I know I am biased but Sault has a good reputation.

Go to confed? Well from what ive heard they are lacking a ton of instructors and still take in 100 studetns so they are super behind. You dont get a MIFR, just a single so you need to go get yours on your own dime. Sault will give you a better shot at an airline. Both make good pilots, I think that while you save a year, I think Sault looks better. If youre in a rush, prob confed then, youll get to work faster and gain experience, which will get you to the airline goal.

Being 33: That dont really matter, either program will be challenging, your age doesnt matter plus 33 isnt old. It might mean you wont make it as far in 20 years at AC but it wont stop you at all, it might even give you teh benefit of being more "mature" and life experienced.

Thanks
any Idea what kind of jobs Confed Grads start with????
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marc s
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by marc s »

flyingjerry wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:49 pm
I can't comment on either but I do know that I went to one of the high volume traditional flight schools and cornwall for the M/IFR and it was less than a year from my first flight lesson to having a job on a twin turbine aircraft. From what I know the remainder of the class that doesn't get chosen by the airlines end up in the same position needing to build time as everyone else.

If you smash out all your ratings in 8-10 months at a traditional flight school then timebuild for 2 years in the right seat of some light twin you will have 1000 hours by the time you would hopefully be graduating from Sault.

Just an idea.
I think you are kinda luck, if you fly a twin aircraft without building hours
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rudder
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by rudder »

Confed has its problems. The biggest has been inability to effectively manage instructor staffing. Looks like student intake for 2018 is much lower than usual so perhaps there is an acknowledgement that student population must correlate to available instructor resources.

At age 31 I would go for Confed. Total cost including housing for 21 months will be around $34,000. Add $5000 for multi-IFR after graduation. So 22 months - just under $40,000 for a commercial multi-IFR including living expenses. There is no better deal out there.
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Meatservo
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by Meatservo »

The thing with Confederation is that their program was developed when there were a lot of "bush" jobs out there. They didn't provide a MIFR because the type of commercial flying graduates tended to gravitate towards on graduation was VFR single-engine float&ski work. The instrument rating would expire and the pilot would have to competely re-qualify for it anyway because he wouldn't be current. So instead the college provided a seaplane rating, with some extra training/flying around on floats, up to around 25 hours of float time, which some operators considered to be better than a bare-bones rating of seven hours. Confederation also provided a cursory introduction to conventional gear and skis. The instructors used to be experienced "bush" pilots and had lots of airmanship and flying lore to share with students. Graduates from other colleges tended to look down on the less challenging academic curriculum, but Confederation graduates were well-respected in the part of the industry they were being steered towards. Air Canada and the Air Force, back in the day, were well-stocked with Confederation guys, and the exciting "bush" companies where adventure beckoned were well populated with them as well.

Nowadays, with few true "bush" jobs available, it's far more likely you'll be able to use a multi-IFR right off the hop. I was very disappointed to learn that Confederation College had ceased its float operations, and the old salts who used to provide the instructor cadre with so much valuable old-timey flying wisdom have retired. I honestly do not know if I'd reccomend Confederation College. What are you supposed to do with a group three instrument rating?
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nwopilot
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by nwopilot »

Meatservo wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:07 pm
What are you supposed to do with a group three instrument rating?
Just go get a group 1 upgrade in 4 days at cornwall for $3700 once you graduate. Still wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy quicker the sault. In today’s industry, anyone would be crazy to go to sault. Those jazz spots are not guaranteed. Do you wanna waste an extra $20k and an extra 2-3 years of your life at sault college just to find out you did not get that spot at jazz?
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Meatservo
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by Meatservo »

Just go get a group 1 upgrade in 4 days at cornwall for $3700 once you graduate. Still wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy quicker the sault. In today’s industry, anyone would be crazy to go to sault. Those jazz spots are not guaranteed. Do you wanna waste an extra $20k and an extra 2-3 years of your life at sault college just to find out you did not get that spot at jazz?
Yes, I suppose. I didn't know it was that quick and inexpensive to upgrade your rating. I don't know much about Sault, or Confederation anymore really. In my day, 30/odd years ago, Seneca, Confederation and Sault colleges were all considered an excellent flying education. The guys going to Confederation were generally NOT the kind of guys who would find the prospect of working for Jazz to be a stimulating or rewarding goal. They were the kind of guys who would spend a few years flying a stinky old radial-powered Otter because they loved it, and who went out and got the multi/IFR so they could fly the 748 or the DC-3. THEN maybe Air Canada, but certainly not "Jazz". But things are different now. Maybe even better? Who knows. I don't know any of the Confederation instructors anymore. And I don't really understand why younger folk do anything anymore, either. I still fly with plenty of bright and capable people, but their motivations and expectations are really different than mine and my friends' were when I was starting out.

The Cornwall idea sounds like a decent option, especially if Sault College is as time-consuming as you say.
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172ReliefPilot
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by 172ReliefPilot »

Might be a bit late to the forum, but I would definitely go to confed. I hear sault is going through some major problems with getting students done within the program timeframe. I know one guy there who should be graduating this upcoming spring, but hasnt even finished his private.

Now, Confed has some issues too, for example last year with the strike and a lack of instructors they had a hard time finishing kids on time as well, and even had to send some to other flight schools in the region to complete the flight training. Im not sure what the status is now, but i think with the new contract, they should have enough instructors to deal with the load. You wont get the group 1 at confed, but if you can finish within the 2 year window, you can bang off a multi/ifr at cornwall in like two weeks compared to a whole other year at the sault. Just a thought though. I found my flight training at confed to be interesting, exciting, fun and challenging all throughout. Being a city kid growing up I loved flying arounf NWO and visiting the smaller airports on cross countrys with my friends. We all learned a lot from our profs. and instructors about northern bush flying and the stories were invaluable learning experiences..

As far as job prospects, youre would probably find a lot of confed guys and gals go and instruct as a way to build their time, then hop on with the local 703 operators. many from my class went through the instructor path, built time and are now flying 703 multi turbine ops. Some even getting on with major regional airlines in canada about a year and a half out of school.

Whats important to know that it doesnt really matter what school you went to, youll hear a lot of talk, but there are plenty of pilots at AC, WJ, Jazz, Porter, Encore and everywhere else from all places all over. What matters is how YOU conduct yourself and serious YOU take your flight training and building yourself a good reputation because boyyyyyy is aviation a small world. Pretty much, just dont burn bridges and keep in contact with your fellow grads, instructors and build connections with other pilots in the industry.

Im a confed grad so my post may seem biased, but know there are many different paths to get to the point you want to be. How quickly and efficiently you want to get there is up to you.
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lownslow
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by lownslow »

That's unfortunate to hear about the Soo these days. I poured a lot of heart and soul into that place once upon a time.
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captainhack
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by captainhack »

Due to last year's college strike, every student in flight training in every aviation program at every college in Ontario got set back. Someone I know who went to Sault College and graduated this year finished their MIFR 4 months after graduation. This is pretty common in college flight training, I have seen this at Seneca College as well. I don't know much about Confederation College, but I hear its SIFR only. In my opinion, Sault College is the better option as you will get the MIFR, you get to fly the Zlin (aerobatic aircraft), and it is a well respected program. But, be ready to work very hard.
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by JasonE »

From what I saw of confed when my daughter was there, I'd recommend going elsewhere. It was kids teaching kids, no competent instruction and one instructor gave her a good scare.
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lownslow
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by lownslow »

JasonE wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:22 am
It was kids teaching kids
That’s flight instruction everywhere.
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Flyboy2019
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Re: urgent: Sault college issues or Confederation

Post by Flyboy2019 »

Hi,
Sault Aviation, grounding student pilot dreams, one cancelled/delayed flight at a time....

I hope you made a good decision and stayed away from Sault College Aviation program. A bit late to the party here as well but wanted to add my 3 cents. There are so many posts on here, as well other aviation sites of just how bad Sault College aviation is.

I am part of the class here at the moment. I am rooming with 3 other Sault aviation students, all of which are so far behind in flight training.

Here are some of the issues.
Most of the class of 2020 went into their last year (Year 3/Sept 2019) NOT having their Private license. At that point should have been completing or have their Commercial license according to schools manual.

Semester 6, 7 or year 3 is the end of the program. It is here in classes you learn Multi/IFR according the the schools training manual and the academic classes. So we are learning Multi etc, but working on PPL flying lessons from the first year.

Multi ratings were taking 6 months plus.

I know of at least 3 students that just left the program after 2 years and spending their education fund as they were simply NOT flying on a regular bases.

It was not uncommon for students to not fly for 3 weeks at a time on a regular bases. The result is students were failing their rides as in some cases did not fly for 3-4 weeks before. This was a real issue for the school, so they had to extend their deadline to allow all the students to re enroll in Semester 3 (PPL Training) which cost them approx another $3600. If not they would have to wait another 12 months to pick up Sem with when next offered.

Year 2, students were going a month at a time with NO FLYING :evil:

School was changing cut off deadlines for flight training or students would have been dropped from the program as well lose their tuition fees. The cut off was first September 2019, then end of November 2019, now I believe Jan 2020 to finish their PPL. Students should have reached this point before the start of year 2, NOT year 3.

Even though the school knew of the issues, they did not cut back on the intake of the following year students. The school gets $10,000's of thousands of federal money per student that are in the course so you can figure this part out!



Just some of the points. This is not a student issue of not wanting to fly, but the schools issue of too many students in the program for the number of aircraft/instructors they have and poor upper management.
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losercruiser
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by losercruiser »

Sault is a joke. It's been going downhill for years. Stay far away.
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Jetking
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by Jetking »

flyingjerry wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:49 pm
I can't comment on either but I do know that I went to one of the high volume traditional flight schools and cornwall for the M/IFR and it was less than a year from my first flight lesson to having a job on a twin turbine aircraft. From what I know the remainder of the class that doesn't get chosen by the airlines end up in the same position needing to build time as everyone else.

If you smash out all your ratings in 8-10 months at a traditional flight school then timebuild for 2 years in the right seat of some light twin you will have 1000 hours by the time you would hopefully be graduating from Sault.

Just an idea.
That’s actually not a bad idea at all! Thanks for sharing!
How long ago and where did you do your training?
Were you just lucky to land a job or you already knew someone working for the company?
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derateNO
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Re: urgent: Sault college or Confederation

Post by derateNO »

Jetking wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:50 pm
flyingjerry wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:49 pm
I can't comment on either but I do know that I went to one of the high volume traditional flight schools and cornwall for the M/IFR and it was less than a year from my first flight lesson to having a job on a twin turbine aircraft. From what I know the remainder of the class that doesn't get chosen by the airlines end up in the same position needing to build time as everyone else.

If you smash out all your ratings in 8-10 months at a traditional flight school then timebuild for 2 years in the right seat of some light twin you will have 1000 hours by the time you would hopefully be graduating from Sault.

Just an idea.
That’s actually not a bad idea at all! Thanks for sharing!
How long ago and where did you do your training?
Were you just lucky to land a job or you already knew someone working for the company?
That's what I did as well.

Lots of jobs out there if you aren't an idiot and can shake hands well. No reason to work ramp anymore either.
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