Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

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Horia1337
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Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by Horia1337 »

Hello everyone I have a question anyone know how to use rwy lights to evaluate a night-time approach??
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FL_CH
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by FL_CH »

Lights get wider - you're too high
Lights get narrower - too low
Lights stay at the same distance apart - you're ok

Ref: FTM
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"Then from 1000 ft AGL until the final capture altitude, the A/C accelerates backwards up along the altitude profile with idle thrust"
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rookiepilot
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by rookiepilot »

Suggest it helps to always try to do a full circuit before landing, even at a controlled airport, especially when final approach is over dark terrain. Helps orient oneself.

I find a straight in, long final is more difficult in this scenario to judge the correct glidepath -- particularly if most of a long flight has been done during the day, with a dark night (overcast) landing.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
photofly
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by photofly »

FL_CH wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:38 pm Lights get wider - you're too high
Lights get narrower - too low
Lights stay at the same distance apart - you're ok

Ref: FTM
I know it says that somewhere in the FTM, but it's not true. A little thought will make it clear: after you land, when you're on the ground, on the runway, the lights are very wide indeed. So the lights can't possibly stay the same distance apart during the approach.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
FL_CH
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by FL_CH »

Based on how OP worded the question, I thought this was for a TC exam (“recall...”). That’s what TC wants to hear...
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"Then from 1000 ft AGL until the final capture altitude, the A/C accelerates backwards up along the altitude profile with idle thrust"
Horia1337
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by Horia1337 »

Yes exactly it was on the back of a sheet from somebody who did the AIRAF. And since i m passing mine in 2 days i was really wondering what do we use this method but thanks to all this answers made it more clear for me :D
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final28
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by final28 »

Think of the distance between lights along the runway, not across the width of it.
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pelmet
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by pelmet »

Horia1337 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:01 pm Hello everyone I have a question anyone know how to use rwy lights to evaluate a night-time approach??
In reality, there are a lot of variables in the type of situation. Assuming that there is no VGSI for you to use as a reference and good weather conditions(as this is a training forum), and being in a light aircraft......There are the easy situations such as at a large airport with good approach lights and the the smaller airports where things usually become more difficult with no approach lights, especially with unlit terrain on final.

Skipping the easier airports(big airports and airports that you know very well), my answer would be.......in general, don't use the runway lights to evaluate the approach except when very close-in or it is obvious from the lights that you are very high or low. But it may not be obvious that you are low.

Use other methods such as references to distance back versus altitude or flying a 'standard' pattern. Avoid runways that are particularly short for your type until your overall and night experience level has increased significantly or you are with someone with that experience(and even then be on extreme alert).

Runway lights can be misleading depending on things such as slope, and even brightness. I remember one icestrip that we used to fly into at night that had generator powered lights. Total black hole. The problem was that the lights on the first half of the runway were quite dim while the second half was bright. One would end up using the second half of the lights to adjust height on final and then all of a sudden see the first half of the lights come into view at which point you discovered that you were too high.

Looking back on the total black hole approaches, it seems from memory that once one was getting significantly below 500 feet agl, on a good night, depth perception, in general, improved and one could start using the lights to evaluate. But that is only my personal belief and others may feel differently.
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B208
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by B208 »

A very good article about black hole effect.

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Nig ... Approaches
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pelmet
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Re: Recall how to use runway lights to evaluate a night-time approach

Post by pelmet »

Thanks,

Note, that after showing three sets of runway lights at different angles(in which one set appears good while another set makes it look like you are very high and a third set makes it look like you are very low), the article says....

“In fact, any of the above choices could be correct. The issue at hand is that the sight picture of the runway lights alone is not always sufficient to ensure a safe visual approach path to the runway. Additional information or further visual cues can be required.”

Of course, local knowledge can make a big difference( for example, you know the runway has a significant upslope).
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