Ratings in what order?

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clairvoyant
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Re: Ratings in what order?

Post by clairvoyant »

Out of curiosity, how will instructors include these 2 items during the flight test?
I haven't see anything on the regular publication.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... l-4886.htm

It will be very cruel to fail the engine and do that unusual attitude recovery all at the same time or fail the engine and partial panel. :D
Thank You
5x5 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:40 am Because they save it for the IPC (from the new version of AC 4004-004 issue 3 effective 2019-02-15)
(4) During the IPC, the candidate will be assessed on the following:
(a) Unusual attitude recovery:
(i) using a full panel of instruments; (See Appendix A)
(ii) using a partial panel, (without an attitude indicator/flight director or directional gyro/Horizontal Situation Indicator) or in the case
of an advanced electronic cockpit, without the primary flight display, only by use of the standby instruments. (See Appendix B)
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altiplano
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Re: Ratings in what order?

Post by altiplano »

I don't think you can have multiple unrelated failures/events at the same time in a flight test, unless it's pilot induced. At least in all the ride I've done... maybe it's different in initial licensing though, I don't remember.
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digits_
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Re: Ratings in what order?

Post by digits_ »

Engine failure and partial panel can not happen at the same time. You can only have one failure (and related items) at a time, unless you cause a second failure yourself.

I haven't heard any examiner doing an engine failure and unusual attitudes at the same time. While it doesn't violate the above rule, it doesn't give the examiner a chance to judge the applicants skills of maintaining altitude and heading during an engine failure, so it probably isn't allowed either.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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clairvoyant
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Re: Ratings in what order?

Post by clairvoyant »

Agree there theoretically.
So, let's say one is being tested on the partial panel on PA34 with the standard 6 pack+HSI+ GNS430.
If the flight examiner covers the HSI and the AI and one has to rely solely on the compass and the turn coordinator, can one "looks" at the GNS430 TRK and BRG? ...or will the examiner covers the GPS as well? :twisted:


digits_ wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:24 am Engine failure and partial panel can not happen at the same time. You can only have one failure (and related items) at a time, unless you cause a second failure yourself.

I haven't heard any examiner doing an engine failure and unusual attitudes at the same time. While it doesn't violate the above rule, it doesn't give the examiner a chance to judge the applicants skills of maintaining altitude and heading during an engine failure, so it probably isn't allowed either.
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fish4life
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Re: Ratings in what order?

Post by fish4life »

A) you don’t need a PTR after your PPL, once you have a license you don’t need a PTR your logbook will suffice.
B) 300nm cross country doesn’t need to be done under supervision
C) if all of your ratings were done by instructors on an adhoc basis and not through a flight school that’s still legit as long as you cover the required hours.
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digits_
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Re: Ratings in what order?

Post by digits_ »

clairvoyant wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:35 pm Agree there theoretically.
So, let's say one is being tested on the partial panel on PA34 with the standard 6 pack+HSI+ GNS430.
If the flight examiner covers the HSI and the AI and one has to rely solely on the compass and the turn coordinator, can one "looks" at the GNS430 TRK and BRG? ...or will the examiner covers the GPS as well? :twisted:


digits_ wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:24 am Engine failure and partial panel can not happen at the same time. You can only have one failure (and related items) at a time, unless you cause a second failure yourself.

I haven't heard any examiner doing an engine failure and unusual attitudes at the same time. While it doesn't violate the above rule, it doesn't give the examiner a chance to judge the applicants skills of maintaining altitude and heading during an engine failure, so it probably isn't allowed either.
Of course you can use the GNS. If anything, it would work against you if you didn't.

That being said, be careful though, you wouldn't be the first to get disoriented by focussing on the GNS too much.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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