IDEAL CAREER PATH

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mrwild
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IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by mrwild » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:46 pm

Hello Fellas,

Looking for guidance from our respected experienced pilots which would help the aspiring/beginner birds.

What is the ideal career path (with timelines) one should be looking at if they are just out of training.

Thank You !
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Diadem
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by Diadem » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:44 pm

1. Get a job, any job
2. Get a better-paying job
2b. Get a betterer-paying job (optional)
3. Retire
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lownslow
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by lownslow » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:05 am

The one that makes you happy.
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North Shore
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by North Shore » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:09 am

What’s your personal ‘747’? Aim for it, and plot your course accordingly..
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mrwild
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by mrwild » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:52 am

Looking for some real advice and not philosophical BS.
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Diadem
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by Diadem » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:16 am

Then maybe you should give us more to work with than "IDEAL CAREER PATH". Path to what? Bush pilot? Career flight instructor? Long-haul widebody captain?
The reality is that with 200 hours you can't really be picky with what your first job is, and it ultimately doesn't matter. Any job that gets you some hours is the right one to launch your career, so try to choose one with a reputable company that pays well and treats you well. Unfortunately, not everyone can get those jobs, and if you turn down anything except an IDEAL job then you won't get far.
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mrwild
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by mrwild » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:23 am

Diadem wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:16 am
Then maybe you should give us more to work with than "IDEAL CAREER PATH". Path to what? Bush pilot? Career flight instructor? Long-haul widebody captain?
The reality is that with 200 hours you can't really be picky with what your first job is, and it ultimately doesn't matter. Any job that gets you some hours is the right one to launch your career, so try to choose one with a reputable company that pays well and treats you well. Unfortunately, not everyone can get those jobs, and if you turn down anything except an IDEAL job then you won't get far.
Well I should have written more about my question. I am not just asking about the first job. I am asking what an ideal aviation career looks like

CPL
Run for hours (approx 1000?) how long is ideal in this case ? should it take a year, two, three before taking next step?
Prepare for ATPL- when to start ? how long should one dedicate ?
Regionals next ? how long before one plans for next jump.
Then long hauls ? I assume not the best flying with timezone changes. how many years of this ?
may be get back to instructing-guiding youth or some adventure flying like bush which doesn't pay that well but keeps the excitement going ?
retire ?

I know all of the above totally depends on bazillion factors, but what should one keep in mind rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.
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fliter
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by fliter » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:52 am

The sooner you jump through the steps, the better in terms of seniority. If wide-body long-haul is your aspiration, get there as fast as you can. Snag some PIC time along the way, and/or go to a company that offers a PICUS program, so that you're upgradeable once in the 705 world. Early on, make sure you get some night time, incl night PIC cross-country, so ATPL is not a problem. Timeline will depend on the economy. It could take you a year to get from a fresh CPL to a regional. Or it could take you ten years. Same for going from a regional to a major. Pilot market is still hot, but the rumours are calling for a cool down in 2020...
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mrwild
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by mrwild » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:54 am

fliter wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:52 am
The sooner you jump through the steps, the better in terms of seniority. If wide-body long-haul is your aspiration, get there as fast as you can. Snag some PIC time along the way, and/or go to a company that offers a PICUS program, so that you're upgradeable once in the 705 world. Early on, make sure you get some night time, incl night PIC cross-country, so ATPL is not a problem. Timeline will depend on the economy. It could take you a year to get from a fresh CPL to a regional. Or it could take you ten years. Same for going from a regional to a major. Pilot market is still hot, but the rumours are calling for a cool down in 2020...
Thank you that is some neat advice especially the night time advice !
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fliter
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by fliter » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:23 am

mrwild wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:23 am
Well I should have written more about my question. I am not just asking about the first job. I am asking what an ideal aviation career looks like
Ideal for whom? There is no one perfect path. It all depends on what kind of flying you want to do, and you might even not know that yourself until you have some experience. So have a shorter-term goal that hopefully doesn't limit your future options too much but don't try to map out your entire career. That's futile, especially in an industry as fickle as this one.
CPL
Also multiIFR. In today's climate you'll likely need it sooner rather than later. And hopefully you did some time-building at night.
Run for hours (approx 1000?) how long is ideal in this case ? should it take a year, two, three before taking next step?
If your goal is the majors, then you should try to move up as fast as you can. Get some PIC time. MultiPIC even better.
Prepare for ATPL- when to start ? how long should one dedicate ?
What does that even mean? Once you have the hourly requirements, study for the exams and then write them. Maybe even write the IATRA ASAP, since the regionals are hiring below 750 hours these days.
Regionals next ? how long before one plans for next jump.
Regionals are happening before ATPL for a lot of folks these days. If your goal is the majors, get some 705 time and get out as soon as Air Canada calls.
Then long hauls ? I assume not the best flying with timezone changes. how many years of this ?
Many people aim for as many years as they can get since this is the most lucrative kind of flying... but you're calling it "not the best flying". So do you even want to do this? BTW, the majors aren't equal long-haul. Lots of shorter/medium-haul flying to be had at AC and other majors if that's your preference. Or maybe you even want to stay at the regionals. You won't make as much there as at AC, but you'll make six figures as a Captain, will have a decent schedule sooner, and might end up enjoying this kind of flying more. Also, there is long-haul and there is long-haul. Some long-haul pilots work 10 days a month, stay in resorts, swim in cash and enjoy their life tremendously. Other long-haul pilots fly 20 days a month and are more sleep-deprived than parents of newborns.
may be get back to instructing-guiding youth or some adventure flying like bush which doesn't pay that well but keeps the excitement going ?
Are they going to want you in the bush with an ageing broken down body after you spent 30 years pressing the autopilot button to go from one 10,000' paved runway to another? :smt102

Seriously, you must be, what, early 20's, trying to figure out what you're going to be doing in 40 years? You don't know what you'll be like, what the industry will be like, what the world as a whole will be like...
I know all of the above totally depends on bazillion factors, but what should one keep in mind rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.
PIC. MultiPIC. Night time. Don't pay to work. Don't work for free. Don't be afraid of hard work as long as you can get proper rest. Don't let a shitty operator kill you. Seniority is everything in the airline world.
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North Shore
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by North Shore » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:07 am

mrwild wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:52 am
Looking for some real advice and not philosophical BS.
F**K you and the horse you rode in on! Ask more than a nebulous question, and you'll get more than philosophical answers.

What *is* an ideal aviation career? It varies from person to person: 'Auto-doze' long haul to exotic destinations, or hands and feet to Ft.EskerMcLake - and the whole gamut between. Choose what you want to do (your personal 747) and work backwards from there wrt the experience that you need. Be aware though, that what turns you on at the beginning of your career/life, might not be the same as towards the middle/end..

The things that should be non-negotiable in between, though, are relationships and time spent with your family and friends. Don't sacrifice those, no matter how shiny the plane, or cool the job..
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Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.

mrwild
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by mrwild » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:24 am

fliter wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:23 am
mrwild wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:23 am
Well I should have written more about my question. I am not just asking about the first job. I am asking what an ideal aviation career looks like
Ideal for whom? There is no one perfect path. It all depends on what kind of flying you want to do, and you might even not know that yourself until you have some experience. So have a shorter-term goal that hopefully doesn't limit your future options too much but don't try to map out your entire career. That's futile, especially in an industry as fickle as this one.
CPL
Also multiIFR. In today's climate you'll likely need it sooner rather than later. And hopefully you did some time-building at night.
Run for hours (approx 1000?) how long is ideal in this case ? should it take a year, two, three before taking next step?
If your goal is the majors, then you should try to move up as fast as you can. Get some PIC time. MultiPIC even better.
Prepare for ATPL- when to start ? how long should one dedicate ?
What does that even mean? Once you have the hourly requirements, study for the exams and then write them. Maybe even write the IATRA ASAP, since the regionals are hiring below 750 hours these days.
Regionals next ? how long before one plans for next jump.
Regionals are happening before ATPL for a lot of folks these days. If your goal is the majors, get some 705 time and get out as soon as Air Canada calls.
Then long hauls ? I assume not the best flying with timezone changes. how many years of this ?
Many people aim for as many years as they can get since this is the most lucrative kind of flying... but you're calling it "not the best flying". So do you even want to do this? BTW, the majors aren't equal long-haul. Lots of shorter/medium-haul flying to be had at AC and other majors if that's your preference. Or maybe you even want to stay at the regionals. You won't make as much there as at AC, but you'll make six figures as a Captain, will have a decent schedule sooner, and might end up enjoying this kind of flying more. Also, there is long-haul and there is long-haul. Some long-haul pilots work 10 days a month, stay in resorts, swim in cash and enjoy their life tremendously. Other long-haul pilots fly 20 days a month and are more sleep-deprived than parents of newborns.
may be get back to instructing-guiding youth or some adventure flying like bush which doesn't pay that well but keeps the excitement going ?
Are they going to want you in the bush with an ageing broken down body after you spent 30 years pressing the autopilot button to go from one 10,000' paved runway to another? :smt102

Seriously, you must be, what, early 20's, trying to figure out what you're going to be doing in 40 years? You don't know what you'll be like, what the industry will be like, what the world as a whole will be like...
I know all of the above totally depends on bazillion factors, but what should one keep in mind rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.
PIC. MultiPIC. Night time. Don't pay to work. Don't work for free. Don't be afraid of hard work as long as you can get proper rest. Don't let a shitty operator kill you. Seniority is everything in the airline world.
Many thanks for the insightful answers ! I owe you a beer !
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fliter
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by fliter » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:01 pm

mrwild wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:24 am
Many thanks for the insightful answers ! I owe you a beer !
Careful, I might take you up on it! :drinkers:
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by iflyforpie » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:11 am

Probably one where you flight instruct from your hometown so you can live in your parent’s basement while getting paid almost nothing, then at 500-1000TT and ATPL exams written going to Jazz, then to Air Canada mainline a couple years later... and retiring as a widebody training captain at 65.

Of course, many choose, few are chosen... and many choose not to for a myriad of different reasons.

One is how boring the above is. Never flying a plane yourself. The best years of your life wasted in ground school teaching barely attentive students about air law... on reserve or driving a bus between boring cities several times a day... and then settling into the hours of sitting looking at nothing to go see Taipei with a bunch of people you don’t know for the sixth time this year already.

Next it what it will do to any relationships you have. Some people make it work... but as a prominent poster on here used to say the senior airline captain usually has immediate relatives from every one of the last six decades between ex wives and kids.

Finally it’s often a moving target, what your goal is and circumstances are.

When I started flying in 2001, I wanted to work for WestJet.. back when they were a profitable upstart that was expanding and upgrading quickly. Then 9/11 happened and I had a family and decided that airlines weren’t really for me. I could work for WestJet now.. but it’s evolved into a company I don’t want to work for because of the company culture and the new realities of a career progression there.
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:17 am

mrwild wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:52 am
Looking for some real advice and not philosophical BS.
I think You disparaged the most valuable comment here.

Every other comment was tactical and strategic advice. Yes, all Good stuff. But -- NS's above about aiming for your own personal 747 and plotting a course? --- life wisdom. That comes first.

Good luck with that attitude. All wisdom is worth listening to.

Try humility and then a whole lot more humility -- first.
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by Daniel Cooper » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:52 am

mrwild wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:52 am
Looking for some real advice and not philosophical BS.
:lol:
You're going to be alright.
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igorcanuck
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by igorcanuck » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:56 pm

Consider starting on a ground position like flight dispatcher. Perimeter in YWG is hiring right now.
If you are interested, check this out: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=131751
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mrwild
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Re: IDEAL CAREER PATH

Post by mrwild » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:43 am

iflyforpie wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:11 am
Probably one where you flight instruct from your hometown so you can live in your parent’s basement while getting paid almost nothing, then at 500-1000TT and ATPL exams written going to Jazz, then to Air Canada mainline a couple years later... and retiring as a widebody training captain at 65.

Of course, many choose, few are chosen... and many choose not to for a myriad of different reasons.

One is how boring the above is. Never flying a plane yourself. The best years of your life wasted in ground school teaching barely attentive students about air law... on reserve or driving a bus between boring cities several times a day... and then settling into the hours of sitting looking at nothing to go see Taipei with a bunch of people you don’t know for the sixth time this year already.

Next it what it will do to any relationships you have. Some people make it work... but as a prominent poster on here used to say the senior airline captain usually has immediate relatives from every one of the last six decades between ex wives and kids.

Finally it’s often a moving target, what your goal is and circumstances are.

When I started flying in 2001, I wanted to work for WestJet.. back when they were a profitable upstart that was expanding and upgrading quickly. Then 9/11 happened and I had a family and decided that airlines weren’t really for me. I could work for WestJet now.. but it’s evolved into a company I don’t want to work for because of the company culture and the new realities of a career progression there.
real life advice straight up thank you !
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