rookiepilot wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 10:02 am

corethatthermal wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 8:03 am

What side of the valley Should one fly on, and why?

Thats a loaded question !!!

Maybe.

I'm still waiting.....

You should fly on the right-hand side of the valley for traffic avoidance, unless there is a reason to fly on the other side (e.g. downdrafts).

Schooner69A wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 8:24 pm I have nothing against improving your skill level - be it mountain flying or aerobatic training.

I am against a school telling a student that it's required as part of his/her commercial course...

Fraud.

To play the devil’s advocate, not quite. While there are minimum standards required by TC for a commercial syllabus, technically speaking the are no limits on it either. As a school, you can come up with whatever requirements you want, you could require your students to dress up in pilot costumes to complete your course, make them fly Boeing simulators, whatever. Also technically speaking, TC has the power to not approve such a syllabus, and again, technically, could beat you over the head for not following your own syllabus.

It’s important to note that there is a difference between a CPL course, and the bare requirements to obtain a CPL. Or any license or rating for that matter.

That is not to say I agree with such practices, though I get why it happens. It’s how the big players in the flight training game compete with one another. Stuff that sounds good on a resume for the unknowing and uninitiated sells flight training to the undiscerning market. But technically it’s not fraud. It’s scummy, and disingenuous, but not fraud.

Squaretail wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 1:41 pm

Schooner69A wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 8:24 pm I have nothing against improving your skill level - be it mountain flying or aerobatic training.

I am against a school telling a student that it's required as part of his/her commercial course...

Fraud.

To play the devil’s advocate, not quite. While there are minimum standards required by TC for a commercial syllabus, technically speaking the are no limits on it either.

Well, not quite. There are some limits. See CAR 405.11 - 405.14. There's nothing in the Flight Training Manual or the Flight Instructor Guide about mountain checkouts, so it's hard to see how it fits in with 405.12 or 405.14.

The limit though in 405 would be omitting or contradicting anything that is in the applicable FTM. There is nothing to say you can’t add extra. “Mountain checks” are really a bad name, and it would be hard to argue that any reasonably or even marginally useful training there would be counter to the FTM and FIG. A similar example (and way more common) to what we are talking about is the use of a simulator for training. The CPL requirements make no requirements for using a simulator, yet you would be hard pressed to find a CPL course in Canada that didn’t require it as part of their completion syllabus.

I think the main reason mountain training is done as part of the CPL in Victoria and Vancouver is because there are very few long x/c routes you can fly that don't involve mountain flying.

My first flight lesson from a very experienced mountain trained instructor was incredibly detailed and specific.

1. Mountains don't move
2. Don't hit the mountain

It got a bit more detailed after that.

That reminds me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knu14TlvCQE

I was told by instructor that you wouldn't be able to fly a lot of cross country solo without mountain checkout in the lower mainland because of the terrain.

How much cross country solo are you planning on doing? I got all the way through my commercial licence in the lower mainland before I started to venture into the mountains.

In any case, if you are going to be flying into the mountains in less than perfect weather it's important to get training from someone with considerable mountain experience in marginal weather. This is irrespective of whether or not you get a mountain checkout from a school in the lower mainland. Go ahead and do the mountain checkout, just don't confuse it with the training required to safely get an airplane from ZBB to YLW and back.

I can easily get from A to B

ahramin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:03 pm How much cross country solo are you planning on doing? I got all the way through my commercial licence in the lower mainland before I started to venture into the mountains.

What route did you use for your 300nm X/C?

Well actually I had flown up to Port Hardy and a couple weeks later was in Vancouver WA. Successfully argued it was a flight from Port Hardy to Vancouver with many stops enroute.

I haven't done 300 xc yet. I was looking at Victoria flying club website for the heck of it and noticed that it said you had to have the mountain checkout to rent their planes overr the mounntains

Instructor told me everywhere you go from lower mainland except south is mountainous so you need mountain checkout

In the mountains, the things of which you have to be aware are wind and weather.

No school would allow an under training student set off on a solo cross country if either condition was going to pose a problem for the u/t pilot.

To suggest that you need a “mountain checkout” to enable you fly in conditions you will never see during your training is suspect.

When it comes to vertical real estate, I think there are two types of pilots: those who want to work IN the mountains and those who want the fly THROUGH the mountains.

Those who want to work in the mountains need a different skill set and knowledge level than those who want to safely navigate through the mountains.

By way of explanation: many years ago, I took a 4-week 25-hour mountain flying course with Okanagan Helicopters in Penticton. During the course, I garnered much knowledge and learned many techniques:

- Psychology of Mountain Flying
- Geography of Mountains and their effects on helicopter operations
- Wind and Weather
- Contour Crawl
- Standard Mountain Approach - Landing and Takeoff
- Basic Circle Recce
- High Altitude Operations
- Ridges and Crowns
- Shoulders and Ledges
- Saddles
- Cirques
- Pinnacle
- Canyons, Narrow Valleys and River Beds

An excellent course for working a helicopter IN the mountains; however, for flying a helicopter THROUGH the mountains, only the first three would be necessary.

And that applies equally well to a neophyte fixed wing pilot wanting to traverse the Rocks from Calgary through to Kamloops. A good briefing to stress:


- Don’t push weather
- If you’re going to fly through the valleys, do so on the upwind side
- If you’re going to fly “over the top”, remember that if the wind is over 20 knots on the ground, the speed will be higher at altitude and the ride rougher.
- Don’t push weather
- Follow the VFR routes
- Don't push weather

Mountain flying and sexual activity have a lot in common…