Flight School

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alimujtaba
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Flight School

Post by alimujtaba » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:56 am

Hello Everyone , this is Ali and I know this is a very common question and repeated one but I have to ask this.

I have a ppl done from South Africa and now I am planning to move to Canada to complete my flight training .
The course I am intrested is iATPL and might work in Canada after completeing the course . I live in the Middle East so I am an Internarional student

I am not familiar with Canada and on this forums I have seen a lot of flight schools all located in different places and am confused.
I am intrested to join a flight School whose fleet is large (more number of active and working airplanes cause my last experience in South Africa wasn’t great with regards to number of airplane)and training quality standard is very high . The cost of the course is not an issue but I am willing to train with the best .

So if someone could shed some light on this and with regards to the place it should have something to do on the weekends and shouldn’t be a lonely place where we don’t have anything else to do rather than studying .

Thanks for reading this post and ur replies are much appreciated .
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snowcrest
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Re: Flight School

Post by snowcrest » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Not enough opportunities in your own country?
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rookiepilot
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Re: Flight School

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:19 pm

Steinbach, in the winter. Sure winner for all requirements.
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: Flight School

Post by TeePeeCreeper » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:48 pm

snowcrest wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:10 pm
Not enough opportunities in your own country?
Spoken like a true gentleman. :roll:
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snowcrest
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Re: Flight School

Post by snowcrest » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:29 am

TeePeeCreeper wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:48 pm
snowcrest wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:10 pm
Not enough opportunities in your own country?
Spoken like a true gentleman. :roll:
What? It's a valid question.
I got buddies who aren't getting in to programs just to get shafted by internationals.
What ever happened to helping our own first?
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vermont
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Re: Flight School

Post by vermont » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:42 pm

snowcrest wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:29 am
TeePeeCreeper wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:48 pm
snowcrest wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:10 pm
Not enough opportunities in your own country?
Spoken like a true gentleman. :roll:
What? It's a valid question.
I got buddies who aren't getting in to programs just to get shafted by internationals.
What ever happened to helping our own first?
I think it's ok for schools to prefer first come first serve, BUT the whole letting anyone in the world work for Air Canada or Westjet without even needing to write exams is a whole lot worse
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praveen4143
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Re: Flight School

Post by praveen4143 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:43 am

vermont wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:42 pm
snowcrest wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:29 am
TeePeeCreeper wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:48 pm


Spoken like a true gentleman. :roll:
What? It's a valid question.
I got buddies who aren't getting in to programs just to get shafted by internationals.
What ever happened to helping our own first?
I think it's ok for schools to prefer first come first serve, BUT the whole letting anyone in the world work for Air Canada or Westjet without even needing to write exams is a whole lot worse
And here I was thinking Canada is welcoming of immigrants. As an immigrant who became a naturalized Canadian, I find your comments highly disgusting.

Flight schools at the end of the day are a business and are free to provide their service to whoever they please, providing they do so legally. Having worked for a few, I can guarantee that at no FTU I worked for, was a Canadian ever denied service in order to get foreign students going.

But thanks for making this political.
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praveen4143
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Re: Flight School

Post by praveen4143 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:34 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:19 pm
Steinbach, in the winter. Sure winner for all requirements.
I second this. I think Harv's Air has an iATPL program but I am not sure. Personally, I would suggest going straight CPL with Group 1 IFR and then writing your ATPL exams later.
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Squaretail
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Re: Flight School

Post by Squaretail » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:11 pm

praveen4143 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:43 am

Flight schools at the end of the day are a business and are free to provide their service to whoever they please, providing they do so legally. Having worked for a few, I can guarantee that at no FTU I worked for, was a Canadian ever denied service in order to get foreign students going.
I'm sure you're aware though that there are flight schools operating in this country that do not offer service to domestic students. Or in practice they don't, regardless of what they may say publicly. One also can't classify their students as immigrants since the students are not intended to stay or work here but rather the school serves the interests of foreign air carriers. Since they make use of our airspace, take advantage of our low operating costs and relatively low taxation on operations, and more importantly the rest of us have to put up with these guys cutting us off in the traffic pattern, I don't find their operations in the public interest of Canadians if they don't additionally directly serve Canadians. In addition to these few operations, there are a multitude that prioritize international student contracts over domestic students. Right now all the freelancers I know are operating at capacity, since more Canadians are taking the advice of websites like this and buying their own aircraft to train on. Its my opinion that the reallocation of the nation's flight training resources to serve foreign needs, while maybe has injected some short term cash into the pockets of a few, is going to have (and is already manifested) a negative effect on domestic aviation needs.

When schools that used to have reasonable booking times suddenly have waiting times measured in months, or years, its not because suddenly there was an influx of domestic kids - after all, the new Top Gun movie hasn't come out yet.
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photofly
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Re: Flight School

Post by photofly » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:48 pm

Squaretail wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:11 pm
and more importantly the rest of us have to put up with these guys cutting us off in the traffic pattern,
I'm glad we're finally getting the bottom of your objections.

(Note: For the avoidance of doubt, I categorically exclude myself from your "us".)
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Squaretail
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Re: Flight School

Post by Squaretail » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:48 pm

photofly wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:48 pm

I'm glad we're finally getting the bottom of your objections.
I'm sorry I misled you to think that was the limit of my grievances. I can go on if you want. Suffice it to say, I would probably be less aggrieved if said schools were turning out spectacular pilots and were running an operation sans reproach. Maybe I should have mentioned the time I got a call about one of these operations that was forging PTRs and using my signature in the process, which led to a strange meeting with some Mongolian CAA representatives. Or maybe the gaggle of 172s that I had the misfortune to encounter doing "solo" cross country flights with instructors on board.

No wait. My all time personal favorite was one of these pilots trained in one of these programs whom when I was supposed to do a proficiency check on for hiring, when we did the simulated engine failure, his entire procedure was to slide his seat back, take off his shoulder harness, tuck his head between his legs into what he said was the "crash position". Guy somehow had a CPL. Sadly he was not unique in lack of ability, though that specific technique was unique.

So you'll forgive me if I am skeptical of the business model being operated here.

(Note: For the avoidance of doubt, I categorically exclude myself from your "us".)
Feel free to disagree, I don't expect for everyone to share my misgivings, experiences or opinions. And if it makes you feel better I can edit the "us" portion above.
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photofly
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Re: Flight School

Post by photofly » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:18 pm

Squaretail wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:48 pm
My all time personal favorite was one of these pilots trained in one of these programs whom when I was supposed to do a proficiency check on for hiring, when we did the simulated engine failure, his entire procedure was to slide his seat back, take off his shoulder harness, tuck his head between his legs into what he said was the "crash position".
But did he remember to re-trim?

If these programs are so bad, it doesn't sound like Canadian domestic students are being denied such a great opportunity, if, as you say, they are being displaced by visitors from abroad.

Putting it another way, your objection seems to have morphed into complaining about bad training, which a lot of us could agree is complaint-worthy. But how does that have anything to do with schools forsaking Canadian students for those from foreign countries?
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Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

Squaretail
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Re: Flight School

Post by Squaretail » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:02 pm

But how does that have anything to do with schools forsaking Canadian students for those from foreign countries?
Because these schools have displaced ones that used to serve Canadian students, or in some cases have been morphed from the old schools to a the new foreign oriented service. In a few cases I can think of, the schools were turned into foreign oriented operations which were then essentially "used up" and now there are no schools there having forsaken their local market. Hell I've been approached to run some of these schemes. The last time was suspiciously from a TC inspector when I did my last class one renewal. In the best cases where Canadian students are still accepted, the training is co-opted to serve the needs of the foreign demands and poor training results all around.
it doesn't sound like Canadian domestic students are being denied such a great opportunity,
In a way you're right. Maybe I should look at it differently.
But did he remember to re-trim?
Oh gawd no. When I asked him "who's flying the airplane right now?" He looked at me like I was crazy. Which is hard to pull off from the crunched position.
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WickeDolphin
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Re: Flight School

Post by WickeDolphin » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:26 pm

From what I've heard Brampton and WWFC are good schools for iATPL. Ottawa Aviation is a shit show from what I've heard, and they dont have a pay as you go system for flights. I cannot speak for any other schools. Harv's air is really good too, but they dont have iATPL. Again, if you want to work in Canada you dont need iATPL. Unless you're from Seneca, Jazz will not hire you right away with 250 hours regardless of if you have iATPL or not. Being an international student, you will need you a PR card anyways to work for Jazz.
I have gone through the iATPL program. Feel free to DM me.
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vermont
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Re: Flight School

Post by vermont » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:57 pm

praveen4143 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:43 am
vermont wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:42 pm
snowcrest wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:29 am


What? It's a valid question.
I got buddies who aren't getting in to programs just to get shafted by internationals.
What ever happened to helping our own first?
I think it's ok for schools to prefer first come first serve, BUT the whole letting anyone in the world work for Air Canada or Westjet without even needing to write exams is a whole lot worse
And here I was thinking Canada is welcoming of immigrants. As an immigrant who became a naturalized Canadian, I find your comments highly disgusting.

Flight schools at the end of the day are a business and are free to provide their service to whoever they please, providing they do so legally. Having worked for a few, I can guarantee that at no FTU I worked for, was a Canadian ever denied service in order to get foreign students going.

But thanks for making this political.
No other country lets just anyone stroll in and fly commercially with no real restrictions like us. I'm an Immigrant myself so it's not like I'm against people moving here. Just not pro TFW
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Moesif
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Re: Flight School

Post by Moesif » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:45 pm

praveen4143 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:43 am
vermont wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:42 pm
snowcrest wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:29 am


What? It's a valid question.
I got buddies who aren't getting in to programs just to get shafted by internationals.
What ever happened to helping our own first?
I think it's ok for schools to prefer first come first serve, BUT the whole letting anyone in the world work for Air Canada or Westjet without even needing to write exams is a whole lot worse
And here I was thinking Canada is welcoming of immigrants. As an immigrant who became a naturalized Canadian, I find your comments highly disgusting.

Flight schools at the end of the day are a business and are free to provide their service to whoever they please, providing they do so legally. Having worked for a few, I can guarantee that at no FTU I worked for, was a Canadian ever denied service in order to get foreign students going.

But thanks for making this political.
I've heard of a flight school in alberta that's done exactly that. They kicked out the only canadian student at the time in order to maximize capacity for their lucrative foreign students
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PilotDAR
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Re: Flight School

Post by PilotDAR » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:03 am

I've heard of a flight school in alberta that's done exactly that. They kicked out the only canadian student at the time in order to maximize capacity for their lucrative foreign students
So that would be a flight school in Alberta? and you're mentioning a Canadian student? That's a strong allegation, I hope that if you're going to assert it, you can support it!
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Moesif
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Re: Flight School

Post by Moesif » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:02 am

PilotDAR wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:03 am
I've heard of a flight school in alberta that's done exactly that. They kicked out the only canadian student at the time in order to maximize capacity for their lucrative foreign students
So that would be a flight school in Alberta? and you're mentioning a Canadian student? That's a strong allegation, I hope that if you're going to assert it, you can support it!
I'm not trying to prove anything. I just heard of this happening to someone ive known and it actually kind of made sense. Since he was being charged much less than the internationals
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Re: Flight School

Post by PilotDAR » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:21 am

I'm not trying to prove anything. I just heard of this happening to someone ive known and it actually kind of made sense.
What benefit does it serve, that you would assert something that you "heard" happened, that you're not trying to prove? Why say it at all? You've accused a Canadian service provider of less than ideal business practice, and you're making it sound like even you aren't sure.
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mircea172S
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Re: Flight School

Post by mircea172S » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:36 am

alimujtaba wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:56 am
Hello Everyone , this is Ali and I know this is a very common question and repeated one but I have to ask this.

I have a ppl done from South Africa and now I am planning to move to Canada to complete my flight training .
The course I am intrested is iATPL and might work in Canada after completeing the course . I live in the Middle East so I am an Internarional student

I am not familiar with Canada and on this forums I have seen a lot of flight schools all located in different places and am confused.
I am intrested to join a flight School whose fleet is large (more number of active and working airplanes cause my last experience in South Africa wasn’t great with regards to number of airplane)and training quality standard is very high . The cost of the course is not an issue but I am willing to train with the best .

So if someone could shed some light on this and with regards to the place it should have something to do on the weekends and shouldn’t be a lonely place where we don’t have anything else to do rather than studying .

Thanks for reading this post and ur replies are much appreciated .
Dont waste your time with an IATPL course, they will milk you of money here, do pay as you go that way your not spending crazy tuition money and you can fly when you have time.
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Aviatard
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Re: Flight School

Post by Aviatard » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:46 am

Moesif wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:02 am

I'm not trying to prove anything. I just heard of this happening
So, in other words, it's unverifiable bullshit.
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