Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

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DHC-1 Jockey
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Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

I'm thinking of renewing my expired class III flight instructor rating which has been expired for more than 8 years. Scanning the Transport Canada website, it seems all I need to do to renew is get a recommendation from a Class 1, do the flight test and do the written.

Is that correct? For some reason when I looked at this a few years ago, I thought there was more to it than that.
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photofly
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by photofly »

That’s correct.

Note that when you take the flight test, you will have to meet the standard for a class 3 instructor, not the easier standard of a class 4 instructor, the latter being the standard most candidates at that exam - being new instructors - are expected to meet. If you only meet the lower standard, your rating will be restored at the class 4 level, and you will have to seek employment at an FTU to teach.
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Last edited by photofly on Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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doplemosh
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by doplemosh »

Currently studying for the AIRAF, so this response is picked fresh from my notebook.

As per CAR 421.66 (3)(c), if your rating has been expired for more than 24 months you will need:
- A letter of recommendation for the written test.
- To achieve a score of 70% on the AIRAF (for a class 3 rating).
- A letter of recommendation for the flight test.
- To complete a flight instructor rating flight test.

There are no further requirements, 24 months seems to be the longest period which TC sets a specific rule.

Im sure that you can also call the TC office on Yonge Street and they could give you an answer about something like this, it seems like a common question they would get.
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ayseven
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by ayseven »

I didn't think they expired. Mine hasn't. Need flt test and that's it apparently.
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7ECA
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by 7ECA »

ayseven wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:40 am
I didn't think they expired.
You have no idea what you're talking about, then.

Take a look at your licence, it"ll have a row starting with FI, then the class held and a statement like "...to 2019 JUN/JUIN 01..."
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ayseven
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by ayseven »

Yes but the exam is not equired
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ayseven
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by ayseven »

Required
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Float_lover
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by Float_lover »

ayseven wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:00 pm
Required
The exam is required is you did not renew your license for 24 months or more.
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ayseven
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by ayseven »

Ok then. So if you have to rewrite the exam, and you need a flight test, why do they even leave it in your license booklet? It has expired and you still need to start all over.
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Kaykay
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by Kaykay »

ayseven wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:28 pm
Ok then. So if you have to rewrite the exam, and you need a flight test, why do they even leave it in your license booklet? It has expired and you still need to start all over.
Make the same argument about every other qualification that requires you rewrite the exam and redo the flight test after it is expired for a long time and it’ll get you no farther. It’s just how TC seems to do it I guess. If I recall correctly, the Instrument Rating used to be similar years ago (don’t recall off the top of my head since it’s old regs, but I seem to remember that).
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ayseven
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by ayseven »

No i get it. IFR was sort if like that, but i don't remember anything regarding exams. Somehow it is just a way to keep their recordkeeping tidy at TC. Obviously one still has to prove competency in whatever discipline we r going for, or trying to keep. I have spent a long time trying to catch up of these things but it is getting there!
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photofly
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by photofly »

ayseven wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:28 pm
Ok then. So if you have to rewrite the exam, and you need a flight test, why do they even leave it in your license booklet? It has expired and you still need to start all over.
You don’t need to re-do the flight and ground training, so you’re not starting all over.
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praveen4143
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by praveen4143 »

photofly wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:25 pm
That’s correct.

Note that when you take the flight test, you will have to meet the standard for a class 3 instructor, not the easier standard of a class 4 instructor, the latter being the standard most candidates at that exam - being new instructors - are expected to meet. If you only meet the lower standard, your rating will be restored at the class 4 level, and you will have to seek employment at an FTU to teach.
I haven't seen a Class 4 instructor standard in either the Instructor Rating Flight Test Guide or the Pilot Examiner manual regarding a "Class 4 level". The Flight test guide states that a Class 4 instructor needs to be assessed Class 1, 2, or 3 in all items. Could you elaborate please?
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trey kule
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by trey kule »

Having afew friends who renewed instructors ratings, they found it difficult to find a class 1 that did not want them to essentially redo the whole course dual part before they would recommend them. Fair enough to apoint.
And in two out of three of them, that stipulation was made before they were asked about experience or currency. No pre course assessment.
The take away, is to clarify with your class 1 right at the beginning , how you will proceed.

The second challenge they came up against was the new teaching philosophy where student motivation is primary, and saying “good job” was a end of lesson requirement. Procedures more important than skills. Admittedly they have been out of it for awhile but it was hard to understand the new philosophy. Licenses and ratings are not issued because of participation...at least not yet,

i think giving back by instructing is great, and to those willing to jump through the hurdles that is also great.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

praveen4143 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:17 am
photofly wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:25 pm
That’s correct.

Note that when you take the flight test, you will have to meet the standard for a class 3 instructor, not the easier standard of a class 4 instructor, the latter being the standard most candidates at that exam - being new instructors - are expected to meet. If you only meet the lower standard, your rating will be restored at the class 4 level, and you will have to seek employment at an FTU to teach.
I haven't seen a Class 4 instructor standard in either the Instructor Rating Flight Test Guide or the Pilot Examiner manual regarding a "Class 4 level". The Flight test guide states that a Class 4 instructor needs to be assessed Class 1, 2, or 3 in all items. Could you elaborate please?
There is no Class 4 standard. To pass an initial flight instructor flight test you will be assessed against the class 3 standard. If you are an x-military instructor or have a qualifying flight instructor rating from an other country you will be granted a Class 3 instructor rating on successful completion of the initial flight test. Most pilots attempting the initial flight instructor flight test will not meet the Class 3 requirements so they will be issued a Class 4 instructor rating

For those renewing the rating you will be assessed to the standard of your expired rating. If you had a class 2 but only could demonstrate Class 3 levels of proficiency then that is what you will be issued.

Other than the 24 month requirement to rewrite the exam and a recommendation from a class 1 instructor, there is no time limit on how long a flight test has been expired. I have seen ratings that expired 20 years ago renewed with just the exam and the flight test.

My advice for someone contemplating renewing a long expired flight instructor rating is to do your homework as not all Class 1’s are created equal and do a good review of the FTG, FIG and FTM before talking to an instructor. The good news for you is none of those publications have been significantly updated since the early 1980’s so they should be pretty familiar
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photofly
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Re: Renewing Expired Flight Instructor Rating

Post by photofly »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:53 pm

There is no Class 4 standard. To pass an initial flight instructor flight test you will be assessed against the class 3 standard.
I stand corrected.

From the Flight Test Guide - Flight Instructor TP5537:
Requirements for Issue of a Rating
Candidates must meet all prerequisites specified in the Personnel Licensing Standards CAR 421 and demonstrate the following performance in each of the seven items assessed on the flight test:

Class 1/Assessed as Class 1 in all items.
Class 2/Assessed as Class 1 or 2 in all items.
Class 3/Assessed as Class 1, 2, or 3 in all items.
Class 4/Assessed as Class 1, 2, or 3 in all items.
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