Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

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gtappl
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Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by gtappl »

Assuming there's no wait list at a school, what's a realistic timeline for someone who starts training now full time (or close to full time) until they're sitting right seat at a regional?
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doplemosh
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by doplemosh »

Im no expert, but this is what ive seen from myself and my friends from flight school.

Assuming no wait list, and you go to a flight school full time, and dont have any major training delays, you should be able to get your CPL and MIFR in about 2 years (many schools will quote less, but those are best case scenario timelines).

This will allow you to progress to either a bush job up north, or move into flight instructing.
Expect to spend 4-6 months working the ramp, or getting your class 4 instructors rating.

From there, expect to spend a minimum of 1.5 to 2 years working that job in order to build up to 1000hrs.
Depending on your education experience, a regional may consider you if you've graduated from an aviation university/college program.
If you did not, progress up the ladder to a MIFR job in medivac or light cargo and spend another year, and you should have the experience and credentials for a regional FO job.

So a total of about 4.5 - 5.5 years if things go to plan.

Im not trying to be pessimistic, but this is the reality of hiring for regional jobs in Canada.
You can get a regional FO interview direct from flight school if your school is linked up with Jazz, but only the best students from every year get this - so dont count on it. Most of us will have to work for about 2-3 years in other jobs before we can sit in the right seat of a Q400.
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derateNO
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by derateNO »

Anyone who started training in 2016, when things first started getting better would likely be left seat at regional by now.

No one anticipated that the industry would do what it's done. But it's still all a gamble.

Hard to make decisions based on a guess. When I started training years ago I was OK with spending 10 years in Whitehorse or Yellowknife, and anything better was a win. In your case think the same way. IF the industry slows down, are you find working in Whitehorse, Inuvik, Thunder Bay etc. for 5-10 years?

If nothing changes, and you go hard through training (1-1.5 years) and then leave the city to go get 1000 hours on something fun, you could be right seat at a regional in 3 years or less.

As for comments on ramp work/instructing. Those are the days gone long by. You can find a flying job pretty easily if you are willing to move, live in your car for a while etc. to find that job.
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Namttej
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by Namttej »

I started full time flight school in Sept. 2015 and was just hired by a regional at the beginning of Feb. So a total of 4.5 years for myself. Seems to be right around average.
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trey kule
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by trey kule »

I understand WestJet just announced a hiring freeze today. And layoffs across the board.
Maybe the music has not stopped yet, but there is an intermission coming.
AirCanada, I expect, will soon be doing the same.
Its going to delay the aspirations of a few.

The best bet is to work towards your goal. Enjoy the journey, and it will happen when it happens
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gtappl
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by gtappl »

Now that the shit has entirely hit the fan, is zero to jazz/porter/encore 10 years the new norm?
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lownslow
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by lownslow »

gtappl wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:16 pm
Now that the shit has entirely hit the fan, is zero to jazz/porter/encore 10 years the new norm?
Right this instant zero to Jazz/Porter/Encore is never. The answer will almost certainly be different by the time someone’s commercial/multi/IFR training is finished.
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7ECA
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by 7ECA »

I wonder what the CAE, zero to Jazz FO program students are being told?

More realistically, try again some time around 2021...
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ayseven
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by ayseven »

At this point, people should start training with the very realistic goal of becoming a commercial pilot, and being paid for your work flying. If you are lucky enough to get to the airlines, bonus. But really, flying an airplane is flying an airplane. This has been aviation in Canada since the John McCurdy flew the Silver Dart, the past short years an exception. But as already said, nobody knows the future, even the short term. Hang in, and never give up on your dreams. You will achieve them.
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Civic
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by Civic »

ayseven wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:28 am
At this point, people should start training with the very realistic goal of becoming a commercial pilot, and being paid for your work flying. If you are lucky enough to get to the airlines, bonus. But really, flying an airplane is flying an airplane. This has been aviation in Canada since the John McCurdy flew the Silver Dart, the past short years an exception. But as already said, nobody knows the future, even the short term. Hang in, and never give up on your dreams. You will achieve them.
Well said!! An airplane is an airplane! I've talked to quite a few former flight instructors that love to teach and told me that if flight instructing paid a good wage or normal wage to live off, that they would have loved to stay and teach in a good old piper or cessna. So keep chugging is all we can say, as right now nobody knows the future, doesn't mean you stop your dreams of flying!
Good luck to all the up and coming guys and gals out there and foremost be safe!!
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snowcrest
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by snowcrest »

7ECA wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:27 pm
I wonder what the CAE, zero to Jazz FO program students are being told?

More realistically, try again some time around 2021...
We'll be training with them this coming May (might get pushed back, who knows at this point). Interested in this as well.
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rudder
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by rudder »

Regionals will have pilots on layoff past the end of 2020.

Hiring at the regionals in 2021 is likely, but not guaranteed.
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gtappl
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by gtappl »

rudder wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:18 am
Regionals will have pilots on layoff past the end of 2020.

Hiring at the regionals in 2021 is likely, but not guaranteed.

So if you start in a month or two, earliest you'd be a captain at jazz or encore is 2030?
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Wasp_Jr
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by Wasp_Jr »

gtappl wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:33 pm
rudder wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:18 am
Regionals will have pilots on layoff past the end of 2020.

Hiring at the regionals in 2021 is likely, but not guaranteed.

So if you start in a month or two, earliest you'd be a captain at jazz or encore is 2030?

Relax and enjoy the ride!
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gtappl
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by gtappl »

Wasp_Jr wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:08 pm
gtappl wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:33 pm
rudder wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:18 am
Regionals will have pilots on layoff past the end of 2020.

Hiring at the regionals in 2021 is likely, but not guaranteed.

So if you start in a month or two, earliest you'd be a captain at jazz or encore is 2030?

Relax and enjoy the ride!
Hard to relax when this field pays poverty wages for those first steps but I hope it's worthwhile in the end! :)
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EastCoaster12
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by EastCoaster12 »

At the end of the day you may want to consider is going to a regional in 2020 (if even possible) at this rate the best thing? The places where you may want to hunker down are those 703/704's everyone talks harshly about most times but it may be the truth. at the end of the day this pandemic is going to effect the industry for years potentially....
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sjatana
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by sjatana »

Have zero expectations with regards to your first regional job. Get accustomed to uncertainty, one guarantee life throws at you in addition to death and taxes. Put your blinders on and work hard. Pay very little attention to what is happening in the industry right now as you are a student in training. It will change when you have your licenses and ratings in hand and you're ready to apply for jobs.

The industry was doing just fine before the pandemic. We had a shortage of pilots, people were comfortable and there was plenty of consistent hiring for low time pilots. All that has now flipped to a pilot surplus due to layoffs and few jobs available.

Yes, the wages are low and it will get better down the road. You've got to have IT in your heart to get over that part of the job. You've got to want it bad enough that despite what's happening right now, you're still passionate and enthusiastic to get back into it after a layoff/furlough. Aviation is a second career for me and I've got no regrets. Focus on learning as much as you can and build positive relationships while being professional and safe. With that, you will be guaranteed a regional job. Keep smashin' the passion - this is the best job!
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laineinaplane
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by laineinaplane »

To give some insight, I completed my PPL in the spring of 2016 and continued on to get my CPL, MIFR and instructor rating which I finished in 2018. I got hired right seat at a 705 after a year of instructing in January and was just about finished line indoc before I lost my job due to the layoffs. So in total it took just under 4 years.

You could go faster, however most of my friends had around the same timeline as well, even the ones that decided to do other entry level jobs instead of instructing did so for about 1-2 years before a 704/705 would look at them, although I do know people that managed to hop into a King Air with 250 hours.

Given the crisis right now, I don't think anyone could give you an accurate answer because nobody knows what the regional market will look like a year from now until there is some certainty. If things get back to a relative normal in a year or two from now, this could still be a realistic timeline.
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gtappl
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by gtappl »

laineinaplane wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:56 am
To give some insight, I completed my PPL in the spring of 2016 and continued on to get my CPL, MIFR and instructor rating which I finished in 2018. I got hired right seat at a 705 after a year of instructing in January and was just about finished line indoc before I lost my job due to the layoffs. So in total it took just under 4 years.

You could go faster, however most of my friends had around the same timeline as well, even the ones that decided to do other entry level jobs instead of instructing did so for about 1-2 years before a 704/705 would look at them, although I do know people that managed to hop into a King Air with 250 hours.

Given the crisis right now, I don't think anyone could give you an accurate answer because nobody knows what the regional market will look like a year from now until there is some certainty. If things get back to a relative normal in a year or two from now, this could still be a realistic timeline.
Are you east or west coast? I'm in the GTA and know dozens of instructors working 5/6 days a week and all of them started ~2017/2018 and are still instructing. 1 year sounds really fast!
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780Pilot
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Re: Realistic timeline for first regional job in 2020?

Post by 780Pilot »

gtappl wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 8:24 pm
laineinaplane wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:56 am
To give some insight, I completed my PPL in the spring of 2016 and continued on to get my CPL, MIFR and instructor rating which I finished in 2018. I got hired right seat at a 705 after a year of instructing in January and was just about finished line indoc before I lost my job due to the layoffs. So in total it took just under 4 years.

You could go faster, however most of my friends had around the same timeline as well, even the ones that decided to do other entry level jobs instead of instructing did so for about 1-2 years before a 704/705 would look at them, although I do know people that managed to hop into a King Air with 250 hours.

Given the crisis right now, I don't think anyone could give you an accurate answer because nobody knows what the regional market will look like a year from now until there is some certainty. If things get back to a relative normal in a year or two from now, this could still be a realistic timeline.
Are you east or west coast? I'm in the GTA and know dozens of instructors working 5/6 days a week and all of them started ~2017/2018 and are still instructing. 1 year sounds really fast!
Depends what you want. If you want to get to Jazz / Encore you need some multi time vs CMA, Pasco etc will hire with little to no multi and even no ATPL. Jazz and Encore typically like the ATPL. So that effects the timeline.
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