Aviation Degree Yes/No?

[sahajghimire]

Hey there guys, I just wanted to get some insight from people that might have already gone past my situation or are in mine and know anything about it.

I always wanted to a pilot growing up, but because of lots of issues, it didnt happen for me. Now I am 27 years old with Master's degree in multiple disciplines and working. But I really want to give my piloting dream a try at this point. Hence I am thinking about getting to a flight school. MY question is, given my background, would I need a flight degree to stand out or would flight training suffice? (I have completed my MBA and MS in Project Management from the US).


Any advice would be appreciated.

[Gary__]

Considering you already have the degree it would be a waste of time to get another. That being said now is not the time to get into the aviation industry, keep your job and take a look at flight schools in a year or two after COVID abates.

[Ash Ketchum]

I agree. Work full time if you can and flight train on evenings and weekends at a flight school. Pay as you go and you can finish all your training with no debt. Since you already have a degree, an aviation diploma wont add extra points to your application with airlines.

[indieadventurer]

Similar situation myself when I decided to become a pilot in my early twenties, I had an engineering degree and was working in the field after graduation but flew at a local flight school evenings and weekends and any spare time I could.

Don't waste your time with a flight school degree, you already have far superior credentials it sounds like. Just get the flight training. You will already stand out with a master's down the road when you apply to airlines.

[Heliian]

Nobody should waste their time with an "Pilot diploma" school but some like the option of a structured program.

Also, an MBA or PM or art history doctorate does not mean you have any transferable experience, it's really your flight skills and people skills that will matter.

[airway]

Nobody should waste their time with an "Pilot diploma" school but some like the option of a structured program.

Also, an MBA or PM or art history doctorate does not mean you have any transferable experience, it's really your flight skills and people skills that will matter.

In the past and probably in the future some airlines will require an Aviation Diploma or a Bachelors Degree (in any subject, but a degree in Aviation may give you more points). Even if it is not required, you would likely have a better chance of being interviewed at an airline with these types of post secondary accreditation.


This following information is a few years old, but I think still applies.
There are 2 main types of "Aviation Diplomas" in Canada, which are usually 2 years.

The first type is where your go to a recognized College, and get a Diploma in a aviation related subject, like "Aviation Management". The College usually contracts the local flying school to do the flight training, and you might get an "Aviation Diploma" and all your ratings from Joe's Flying School. Some airlines may not recognize this type of "Aviation Diploma".

The second type is where you go to a recognized college where they are the ones granting the "Aviation Diploma" and they control the flight training. Usually the flight instructors are College employees, and the planes are owned or leased by the College. The flight training may be better or worse than Joe's Flying School depending on your instructor, but this is an "Aviation Diploma" from a recognized college.



More post secondary education for you will not help you get a job. You have enough. If I was you, I would continue working at your current job at least for a year or 2 until it looks like things are turning around (there are starting to be jobs for new pilots), then go to your local flying school, find a good full time instructor, and get all your ratings in a year or less. Stay with that 1 instructor for all of the flight training if possible, with maybe one back up. You waste a lot of money going at the training slowly, because the instructor has to spend more time reviewing things you have forgotten since last week.

You may be working up north for a few years for low pay before you will have a chance to get a job at a regional airline, so be prepared.


.

[Nicholas96]

If you are sure this is what you want I would not wait...get your license and when things get better you are ready to apply instead of starting your training...and you don’t need an aviation degree waste of money in your case you already tick the post secondary box no need to check it off again find yourself a reputable recognized flight school and go modular

[ayseven]

This is a cannibalistic industry. Anybody who tells you to wait before training doesn't want you to compete with them when things pick up. You have plenty of education - at least enough to attract attention from anywhere worthwhile. Go flying. ASAP. You will never have enough hours, so the more you can do before you start your first flying job, the better. It is going to be a tough go starting late like this. However, this is the flying business, and although I wouldn't want to do it again - it was tough at 20, let alone now - if you put your head down, assume everyone, anytime can influence your career, you are almost a shoe in (see the Promotion movie...). Do online ground schools for now. PM me.

[airway]

This is a cannibalistic industry. Anybody who tells you to wait before training doesn't want you to compete with them when things pick up.

I have been flying for 30 years, 20 at an airline. I have no need to compete with anyone.

[ayseven]

Well that does not make my comment less true. An airline person can patiently wait these things out, as many have done in the past, but somebody with no experience whatsoever is just going to be at a disadvantage. The caveat is that frustration can set in, when you get trained and there is no job on the horizon for years. As we know, there is more than one road to Rome, and the only reason I might agree with Mr Airway is that it may be difficult to keep the flame going in dire economic circumstances.

I have noticed something over the years. The people flying for airlines often seem to think that because they managed to get where they wanted to go, that anybody can. Not everybody fits the profile they want, but the biggest thing in becoming a successful pilot is HOURS - and the right kind.

[sjatana]

Hey there guys, I just wanted to get some insight from people that might have already gone past my situation or are in mine and know anything about it.

I always wanted to a pilot growing up, but because of lots of issues, it didnt happen for me. Now I am 27 years old with Master's degree in multiple disciplines and working. But I really want to give my piloting dream a try at this point. Hence I am thinking about getting to a flight school. MY question is, given my background, would I need a flight degree to stand out or would flight training suffice? (I have completed my MBA and MS in Project Management from the US).


Any advice would be appreciated.

Absolutely not. I'm a second career guy like you. Jump into the flight training.

If I were you, I'd keep one foot in your current line of work while flight training and working in aviation. Don't throw all your eggs in one basket.

[airway]

Well that does not make my comment less true. An airline person can patiently wait these things out, as many have done in the past, but somebody with no experience whatsoever is just going to be at a disadvantage. The caveat is that frustration can set in, when you get trained and there is no job on the horizon for years. As we know, there is more than one road to Rome, and the only reason I might agree with Mr Airway is that it may be difficult to keep the flame going in dire economic circumstances.

I have noticed something over the years. The people flying for airlines often seem to think that because they managed to get where they wanted to go, that anybody can. Not everybody fits the profile they want, but the biggest thing in becoming a successful pilot is HOURS - and the right kind.

Well that does not make my comment less true.

So you are still claiming that anyone that tells someone to wait is just doing it so they don't have to compete with them.

An airline person can patiently wait these things out, as many have done in the past, but somebody with no experience whatsoever is just going to be at a disadvantage.

Are you saying that since I can apparently patiently wait this out, I don't understand that a new pilot will be at a disadvantage?
Also, If you have been laid off, like hundreds are right now, it would be hard to wait patiently.

The caveat is that frustration can set in, when you get trained and there is no job on the horizon for years. As we know, there is more than one road to Rome, and the only reason I might agree with Mr Airway is that it may be difficult to keep the flame going in dire economic circumstances.

Exactly. Or how about working on the ramp up north for years loading planes for minimum wage? That would be even worse if you already had a good job and/or a family that would be unhappy living there.

I have noticed something over the years. The people flying for airlines often seem to think that because they managed to get where they wanted to go, that anybody can.

So you are saying that because I work for an airline, I don't know how hard it is to get into an airline. Ridiculous.

Not everybody fits the profile they want

True

but the biggest thing in becoming a successful pilot is HOURS - and the right kind.

Depends on what your definition of "a successful pilot" is.

[L39Guy]

Getting back to your original question, "MY question is, given my background, would I need a flight degree to stand out or would flight training suffice?", I believe that you have plenty of academic education. What you need is a flying education.

The requirements to fly professionally are obvious - private, commercial, multi-engine, IFR, night, etc. The requirements for all of those licenses and endorsements are well known. I would also add, though not required, is an aerobatic rating since you will be spending money renting airplanes and instructors knowing how to fly at the "edge of the envelope" is a nice skill to have. Upset recovery, unusual attitudes are now part of airline training programs and having seen it in a real airplane will make that go a lot smoother. And, as a bonus, aerobatics is fun!

I am a big fan of Seneca College's Airline PIlot Flight Operations program (https://www.senecacollege.ca/programs/fulltime/APF.html). One needs a post secondary education (you've got it) as well as a commercial, mutli-IFR which you will get eventually regardless and 250 hours. My son did this program and I was awed at the training he received, how much he improved as a professional pilot and, as a bonus, it got him a job at Jazz as his first flying job which basically means Air Canada as AC is hiring 60% from Jazz. Sunwings, Porter, Encore and others hire directly from the Seneca 4 year program but I believe 100% of those that do this 1 year program also get hired by these airlines too.

I can set my watch by the flaming comments that will follow that last paragraph and I won't bother rebutting them. Been there; done that. If your end target is airlines this is probably the most efficient and low risk path to that objective particularly considering that you have already checked the post secondary education box. Yes, the industry sucks right now but you're years away from having the flying ratings and experience so what is going on today is not important. What is important is how things look in 2, 3 or 4 years from now. While nobody knows for sure, I suspect the industry will be back on its feet again within 3 years once a vaccine or treatment is available.

[Jean-Pierre]

The best way to learn how to fly is do aerobatics

The best way to learn how to be an airline pilot is go directly to Jazz

Sad

[airway]

Sunwings, Porter, Encore and others hire directly from the Seneca 4 year program but I believe 100% of those that do this 1 year program also get hired by these airlines too.

The rest of your post was good L39, but I highly doubt anywhere near 100% of graduates from a 8 month certificate program (not a diploma) were hired at a airline in the past. Do you have any support for that statement?

[ayseven]

I do not recall ever saying that it was an easy road to become an airline pilot. I know the years of heartache that precede success in almost anything. This business is still cannibalistic, regardless of what anybody can say to try to deny that. In fact, it is rarely spoken of at all. This fellow will plod away at his goals and do just fine in anything. He has proven he can put up with quite a bit to get where he already has.

[airway]

I do not recall ever saying that it was an easy road to become an airline pilot.

Are you replying to something I posted?

[L39Guy]

Sunwings, Porter, Encore and others hire directly from the Seneca 4 year program but I believe 100% of those that do this 1 year program also get hired by these airlines too.

The rest of your post was good L39, but I highly doubt anywhere near 100% of graduates from a 8 month certificate program (not a diploma) were hired at a airline in the past. Do you have any support for that statement?

To be clear, this refers to the 8 month Seneca program only and not any other program - I am not sure that other programs with similar entry requirements exist. But I do know that 100% of my son's year in this program were hired (by Jazz); other years I am not entirely sure of.

[airway]

Sunwings, Porter, Encore and others hire directly from the Seneca 4 year program but I believe 100% of those that do this 1 year program also get hired by these airlines too.

The rest of your post was good L39, but I highly doubt anywhere near 100% of graduates from a 8 month certificate program (not a diploma) were hired at a airline in the past. Do you have any support for that statement?

To be clear, this refers to the 8 month Seneca program only and not any other program - I am not sure that other programs with similar entry requirements exist. But I do know that 100% of my son's year in this program were hired (by Jazz); other years I am not entirely sure of.

OK, Jazz only

[pelmet]

I probably wouldn't have said this 4 months ago but in reality, I think it should be said. Piloting is a bad career to get into if you want job stability. Every ten years there is an economic slowdown. Early '90's, early 2000's(after 9/11),, 2010 area during the great recession, and now the worst one of all that is affecting even hugely senior people and shutting down major airlines around the world. No doubt, there will be another one in a decade or so and it also turns out that there is a major virus every decade or so. Swine flu, SARS, H1N1, and apparently there was a bad one in 1968 and decades before)....and now the precedent for economic shutdown has been set.

If you had become a doctor instead, probably there would never have been an overall industry issue. I'm sure there are other more stable fields as well.