A Twist on Medical

[final28]

One thing to consider is the investigation that might follow if you were ever involved in an accident. If that dug back far enough and came up with either a migraine diagnosis and/or a misrepresentation for your medical it may affect insurance coverage.

[JAHinYYC]

CBRRider after rereading the original post, the responses and your subsequent posts I find myself concerned about the future implications of the decision that you are on the cusp of making.

In your original post you acknowledge that you made an ill-considered decision to lie to your family physician about migraines as a means of getting sick notes which would allow you to get out of working in an unpleasant situation. You chalk this up to the foolishness of youth.

No judgement here. We've all been young and made dumb decisions.

The thing is...about getting older... you stop doing that and you hopefully start to make smart decisions - even when they are difficult and come with unpleasant consequences.

You go on to ask for advice about how to rationalize making a statement that you do not and have not suffered from migraines to a CAME which contradicts what you previously told your family doctor and what will be documented in your medical file.

Much of the advice you have received focuses on whether these two contradictory statements will ever be discovered and the mechanism for how this discovery would be accomplished.

Photofly correctly assumes that my story about centralized record keeping is from Alberta - which has centralized record keeping.

He says that Ontario does not have a centralized medical records database (my Google search this morning indicates that it does).

Your subsequent mention of the fact that you are in BC and ask whether BC maintains a central records registry suggests to me you are still trying to assess the likelihood of getting caught.

I offer to following observations:

1) That section 6.5(6) of the Aeronautics Act provides your "deemed consent" to release your medical records to the Minister (of Transport) for purposes of assessing your medical competency; and
2) Your "bet" is that BC never centralizes its medical record keeping in a manner that would allow your prior statements to come to light.

Since you mention karma in your original post - CBRRider I ask you to think of yourself in the future. Ten or Fifteen years from now.

There you are zooming along at FL410. Autopilot is engaged and since it is your leg the First Officer is completing fuel checks and working the radio while you sip on your coffee and ponder which crew meal you would like to order. A message appears on ACARS asking you to call in to speak to the Chief Pilot once you reach destination.

Upon landing you learn that Transport Canada has opened an investigation into your license because you failed to disclose a history of debilitating migraines on your initial application for an aviation medical.

You are given an administrative suspension pending investigation. This, in turn, becomes a full blown dismissal once it is determined that you once told your family doctor that your migraines were bad enough that you couldn't work, yet you subsequently told your CAME that you had no prior history of migraines.

Since you have repeatedly made that same contradictory statement each year during your medical renewal and since you also told that to the Company Doctor during your pre hire medical that had no history of migraines you are terminated since lying to your employer is grounds for dismissal without cause. Your union fights for you, but since this is an area where the courts and employment tribunals don't mess around you are given a nominal severance package and your career at this airline is over.

You contemplate starting over with another airline, but need to disclose the circumstances around your previous dismissal during each subsequent interview.

Meanwhile the Transport Canada Tribunal imposes six month license suspension along with a $2500 fine. They decline to seek any jail time (desptie the fact that you are eligible to go to prison for up to one year under section 7.3(4)). Lucky you, you won't be permanently barred from entering the United States, but at age fifty you wonder what impact this situation will have on your ability to find work.

Maybe the call comes or maybe it never does.

Alternatively, you could just tell the CAME what happened during you initial medical. Explain what you said to the family Doctor and why. Work through the repercussions (if there are any) and live the rest of your life without this hanging over your head. At that point at least you know where you stand and if you ultimately can't hold the Category One because of the migraines thing - at least you haven't spent $65,000 and years of your life on training.

But honestly, I am willing to bet it doesn't come to that.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Of course a more interesting questions is what kind of pilot someone who would lie to his doctor and employer to skive off work for months on end would make.

The more interesting question is, what kind of pilot would someone who publicly admits to taking employment advice from Reddit make?

Seriously though, I've had such jobs a few times, and I just quit (or didn't quit, and it got so toxic that I wound up getting fired when I stood up for myself). I don't blame the OP, we all make mistakes.

Just keep in mind, it's not the mistake that brings you down. It's the coverup. Every time.

(unless, to be fair, your employer is toxic...)

[digits_]

Since you mention karma in your original post - CBRRider I ask you to think of yourself in the future. Ten or Fifteen years from now.

There you are zooming along at FL410. Autopilot is engaged and since it is your leg the First Officer is completing fuel checks and working the radio while you sip on your coffee and ponder which crew meal you would like to order. A message appears on ACARS asking you to call in to speak to the Chief Pilot once you reach destination.

Upon landing you learn that Transport Canada has opened an investigation into your license because you failed to disclose a history of debilitating migraines on your initial application for an aviation medical.

You are given an administrative suspension pending investigation. This, in turn, becomes a full blown dismissal once it is determined that you once told your family doctor that your migraines were bad enough that you couldn't work, yet you subsequently told your CAME that you had no prior history of migraines.

Since you have repeatedly made that same contradictory statement each year during your medical renewal and since you also told that to the Company Doctor during your pre hire medical that had no history of migraines you are terminated since lying to your employer is grounds for dismissal without cause. Your union fights for you, but since this is an area where the courts and employment tribunals don't mess around you are given a nominal severance package and your career at this airline is over.

You contemplate starting over with another airline, but need to disclose the circumstances around your previous dismissal during each subsequent interview.

Meanwhile the Transport Canada Tribunal imposes six month license suspension along with a $2500 fine. They decline to seek any jail time (desptie the fact that you are eligible to go to prison for up to one year under section 7.3(4)). Lucky you, you won't be permanently barred from entering the United States, but at age fifty you wonder what impact this situation will have on your ability to find work.

Maybe the call comes or maybe it never does.

Alternatively, you could just tell the CAME what happened during you initial medical. Explain what you said to the family Doctor and why. Work through the repercussions (if there are any) and live the rest of your life without this hanging over your head. At that point at least you know where you stand and if you ultimately can't hold the Category One because of the migraines thing - at least you haven't spent $65,000 and years of your life on training.

But honestly, I am willing to bet it doesn't come to that.

Owkay. Theoretically possible, but not sure the OP can do anything about that.

Realistically, what will happen during the medical if he confesses?

I predict something like this:

"Have you had any migraines?"
- "Well, not really, but I once told my family doctor I had them"
"What do you mean?"
- "Jee doc, this is embarrassing, but I had a really crappy job 2 years ago and I got a doctor's note for migraines. But I never really had them."
"Oh boy. Hmm, but to be clear, you've never actually had any migraines? "
- "No, not at all"
"You're not lying now, are you?"
- "No sir"
"Ok, just checking. And did you ever take any medication for those fake migraines?"
- "No"
"And no other treatment for those migraines?"
- "no, nothing"
"Well, in that case I'll say no on this question, since you never actually had any migraines and you never got any treatment either. Does that sounds right to you?"
- "Yeah, sure"
"Ok"

In summary: the paper will most likely have a "no" on it. The paper trail will most likely not look different whether you confess to the doc or not.

Also, on what grounds would the airline fire you? You didn't lie on your medical, you lied during another employment. Unless the accident has you saying on the CVR "ohhh my head hurts like crazy like it has been every week of my life, better dump the cabin and see if this alleviates my pain" I find it highly unlikely any investigator will link the cause of the accident to fake migraines from 10 years ago.

[photofly]

He says that Ontario does not have a centralized medical records database (my Google search this morning indicates that it does).

I assure you, with 100% certainty, that it does not. Every Health Information Custodian keeps their own records, in a variety of incompatible systems. A few hospitals keep their records on different regional systems from what used to be part of eHealth Ontario, various networked systems called Connecting Ontario (Clinical Connect, Connecting GTA and others) and a few primary care providers can read records there (but mostly not contribute to them), and they are regional in scope only.

There is quite definitely no Ontario-wide system for sharing health information among healthcare providers. Such a system has in fact been the holy grail of medical record keeping in this province for a long time but the obstacles to its implementation are huge, seemingly insurmountable.

EDIT I am advised by my neighbour on the sofa tonight that regulations were propsed just a couple of weeks ago to enforce data interoperability between various systems. You can read them here, if that’s your gig:
https://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/ ... ngId=32590

Secondly, I am told by someone whose advice you want to take very very seriously, that the OP should get professional legal advice on his situation. Sooner, rather than later.

[Kejidog]

Of course a more interesting questions is what kind of pilot someone who would lie to his doctor and employer to skive off work for months on end would make.

Ahh I knew it would come to this. Thank you for everyone else prior who were understanding.

If you knew how horrible and morally corrupt my bosses were and the harassment I was subjected to, I have no doubt that I have the moral high ground here. At the end of the day, you have to take care of and protect yourself and right or wrong this is the methodology that I employed.

As I once sad to a cop who was giving me a speeding ticket, who was telling me he was sick of going to accidents and telling family members their kids died in car crashes. “ If ya don’t like your job, Mac you should quit”

[AirFrame]

I predict something like this:

"Have you had any migraines?"
- "Well, not really, but I once told my family doctor I had them"
"What do you mean?"
- "Jee doc, this is embarrassing, but I had a really crappy job 2 years ago and I got a doctor's note for migraines. But I never really had them."
"Oh boy. Hmm, but to be clear, you've never actually had any migraines? "
- "No, not at all"
"You're not lying now, are you?"
- "No sir"
"Ok, just checking. And did you ever take any medication for those fake migraines?"
- "No"
"And no other treatment for those migraines?"
- "no, nothing"
"Well, in that case I'll say no on this question, since you never actually had any migraines and you never got any treatment either. Does that sounds right to you?"
- "Yeah, sure"
"Ok"

In summary: the paper will most likely have a "no" on it. The paper trail will most likely not look different whether you confess to the doc or not.

This is what I envision would happen too, with many aviation medical doctors. It seems reasonable on the face of it, but unless a note to the effect that this was discussed is added to the file, I don't see how it helps the OP. This conversation would have to happen at every medical exam, and would have to be documented as such. And each time, you'd be at the mercy of the RAMO when they see it, and hoping a new RAMO won't decide that it should be looked into. It might cover you with respect to your employer, as you've been up front about it (provided it was documented) but might not protect your medical's continuity.

It seems the only way to "resolve" this would be to have the original record either stricken from the record, or if that's not possible, footnoted with a sworn affidavit attesting to the circumstances surrounding the situation and the subsequent invalidity of the record. Have you considered contacting the family doctor who you saw for the diagnosis at the time?

[digits_]

I predict something like this:

"Have you had any migraines?"
- "Well, not really, but I once told my family doctor I had them"
"What do you mean?"
- "Jee doc, this is embarrassing, but I had a really crappy job 2 years ago and I got a doctor's note for migraines. But I never really had them."
"Oh boy. Hmm, but to be clear, you've never actually had any migraines? "
- "No, not at all"
"You're not lying now, are you?"
- "No sir"
"Ok, just checking. And did you ever take any medication for those fake migraines?"
- "No"
"And no other treatment for those migraines?"
- "no, nothing"
"Well, in that case I'll say no on this question, since you never actually had any migraines and you never got any treatment either. Does that sounds right to you?"
- "Yeah, sure"
"Ok"

In summary: the paper will most likely have a "no" on it. The paper trail will most likely not look different whether you confess to the doc or not.

This is what I envision would happen too, with many aviation medical doctors. It seems reasonable on the face of it, but unless a note to the effect that this was discussed is added to the file, I don't see how it helps the OP. This conversation would have to happen at every medical exam, and would have to be documented as such. And each time, you'd be at the mercy of the RAMO when they see it, and hoping a new RAMO won't decide that it should be looked into. It might cover you with respect to your employer, as you've been up front about it (provided it was documented) but might not protect your medical's continuity.

It seems the only way to "resolve" this would be to have the original record either stricken from the record, or if that's not possible, footnoted with a sworn affidavit attesting to the circumstances surrounding the situation and the subsequent invalidity of the record. Have you considered contacting the family doctor who you saw for the diagnosis at the time?

Not sure if that is true. Only at my initial exam did the doc ask me if I "ever" had A or B. The recurrent ones had the question "since your last medical, did you ....".

I've had a question go from yes to no over a few years time.

[photofly]

Not sure if that is true. Only at my initial exam did the doc ask me if I "ever" had A or B. The recurrent ones had the question "since your last medical, did you ....".

I've had a question go from yes to no over a few years time.

You must report a condition every single time. Check for yourself - here's the form you have to sign:
https://psssupport.telushealth.com/cont ... -0010E.pdf

PARTC: ....Has the applicant ever had or been treated for any of the following conditions?\.
.
.
7. Frequent or severe headaches, migraines

Here's the warning:

I am aware that it is an offence under the Aeronautics Act to knowingly make a false representation for the purpose of obtaining a Canadian aviation document or any privilege accorded thereby.

The penalty is a fine of up to $5,000 and a year in prison. And the OP can kiss goodbye to ever having a job as a pilot or even holding a pilot licence ever again.

When I look up the definition of "treatment" it's very broad: "Medical or surgical management of a patient." being signed off work for a condition definitely counts as "treatment" - you don't have to take medication to have been "treated." There's no doubt the OP has had treatment for this condition, regardless of whether he ever had the condition itself.

A medical record is taken in court as prima facie evidence of the truth of its contents. You're going to have to work very very hard to show that it was and remains incorrect. Doubly so for a condition that leaves no physical trace, like migraines. Triply so when the present claim that the original record was false is so evidently self-serving. Once your credibility is gone, it's gone, and the record that you had migraines is what stands.

The OP should get professional legal advice.

[digits_]

I agree the form says that, but what do you do if the doc says he is only interested in anything new since your last medical? He is the one filling it out. I know you sign it, but trying to argue with the doc when he says you are fit to fly seems a bit weird.

[AirFrame]

I agree the form says that, but what do you do if the doc says he is only interested in anything new since your last medical? He is the one filling it out. I know you sign it, but trying to argue with the doc when he says you are fit to fly seems a bit weird.

You're signing a legal document. If it's incorrect, it's on you to correct it, or it's your license that's lost. The doctor has no skin in the game, and has nothing to lose if TC reviews it and pulls your medical.

"He asked if I was treated/took medication since my last medical, and I didn't read the form before signing it" will get you laughed at.

[photofly]

Actually you usually sign the form before the doctor completes it; the signature box is on page 1 and the doctor’s stuff is on page 2.

I suspect it’s not in contemplation that unlike a pilot, a member of one of the professions (a doctor) will make an error of omission and fail to indicate your historic condition as required on the form. But anyway, your job is to tell the truth to the professional in the room, and let him or her fill out the form.

I agree the form says that, but what do you do if the doc says he is only interested in anything new since your last medical?

Being a professional, the doctor can use your medical history of which he is aware to correctly fill in those fields. You don’t need to tell them unless something has changed, but they will fill the fields in correctly. Being professionals, and all that.

If Transport has any sense (that’s a big ask, I know) their software should flag up a change in any of the “have you ever” fields from “yes” to “no” as needing follow up and correction.