Flight training with masks?
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- RedAndWhiteBaron
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Flight training with masks?
OK so flight training has been opened up in the GTA... I have some concerns about wearing masks while training.
Fist of all - I have a BIG head (sadly, not a big brain - 7 3/4 hat size). Most masks are OK for half an hour or so, but beyond that, they become... painful. And I mean, normally, I could just work through the pain, but that just won't work when I need to be at the top of my game for a two hour training session. I'm sure I can find something that will work though, but I'd love to hear suggestions.
Second - does anyone have any experience yet with using masks AND headsets? Jesus, the wires and elastics in such a small space just... intimidate me.
Third - I wear glasses, but usually I wear contacts while flying. My instructor related to me a particularly harrowing account of his glasses fogging up halfway through a takeoff roll, thanks entirely to his face mask. I'm not quite sure which risk I should take, or advocate that others take, and I'd like to hear other people's opinions.
And finally - I'm in the market for a headset, especially now that headsets can't be rented or borrowed. My local pilot shop sells the Bose A20 for $1400 - does that seem like a good price, and does anyone have one they're willing to sell, for less than that?
Fist of all - I have a BIG head (sadly, not a big brain - 7 3/4 hat size). Most masks are OK for half an hour or so, but beyond that, they become... painful. And I mean, normally, I could just work through the pain, but that just won't work when I need to be at the top of my game for a two hour training session. I'm sure I can find something that will work though, but I'd love to hear suggestions.
Second - does anyone have any experience yet with using masks AND headsets? Jesus, the wires and elastics in such a small space just... intimidate me.
Third - I wear glasses, but usually I wear contacts while flying. My instructor related to me a particularly harrowing account of his glasses fogging up halfway through a takeoff roll, thanks entirely to his face mask. I'm not quite sure which risk I should take, or advocate that others take, and I'd like to hear other people's opinions.
And finally - I'm in the market for a headset, especially now that headsets can't be rented or borrowed. My local pilot shop sells the Bose A20 for $1400 - does that seem like a good price, and does anyone have one they're willing to sell, for less than that?
I will dance the sky on laughter-silvered wings.
Re: Flight training with masks?
Masks in the cockpit are a pain, but way better than not flying at all. The most comfortable I've found are the disposable ones. They are light enough and the elastic around the ears have lots of give so stay comfortable even with glasses. They don't trap heat like cloth ones do and you can actually reuse them a few times if you want. The mic does have to be tucked in the side because it won't activate if it's on the outside. It's awkward the first few times but isn't bad once you get the hang of it.
For a headset I'd recommend Lightspeed Zulu. I find it more comfortable than a Bose and less expensive - win, win. But everyone has their own preferences and you'll never get a consensus so don't even hope for one.
For a headset I'd recommend Lightspeed Zulu. I find it more comfortable than a Bose and less expensive - win, win. But everyone has their own preferences and you'll never get a consensus so don't even hope for one.
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- RedAndWhiteBaron
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Re: Flight training with masks?
I've actually found the disposable masks to be worse than cloth masks, at least in terms of how they fog up my glasses. Many of the cloth masks have a wire you can pinch over your nose that while not eliminating the issue, alleviate it.
If I could have it my way, I'd find something with an exhale valve - some N95s have them. I've done some confined space work in my day, and with glasses, that little valve does make a huge difference. But they're just not available right now.
Maybe call around to some safety supply or auto parts or industrial supply stores, see what's available.
It's just that the risk of masks causing my glasses to fog up, or becoming painful to the point of distraction, is magnified, while in command of an aircraft. I mean, put it this way - I can't drive with a mask. How the @#$! can I fly with one?
By the way, did I mention I have a very big head? I can't find a freaking hat that fits me, let alone a goddamned mask.
If I could have it my way, I'd find something with an exhale valve - some N95s have them. I've done some confined space work in my day, and with glasses, that little valve does make a huge difference. But they're just not available right now.
Maybe call around to some safety supply or auto parts or industrial supply stores, see what's available.
It's just that the risk of masks causing my glasses to fog up, or becoming painful to the point of distraction, is magnified, while in command of an aircraft. I mean, put it this way - I can't drive with a mask. How the @#$! can I fly with one?
By the way, did I mention I have a very big head? I can't find a freaking hat that fits me, let alone a goddamned mask.
I will dance the sky on laughter-silvered wings.
Re: Flight training with masks?
An exhale valve is exactly what you don’t want. Masks are typically designed to filter inbound air, and if that’s what you want then an exhale valve makes perfect sense. If you are protecting yourself from particulates in the air it makes no sense to filter when you breathe out.
But with COVID-19 you are trying to prevent droplets generated in your mouth and lungs spraying out when you breathe out. So you need filtration for the out-breaths. That would be defeated by an exhale valve.
Some US pilot stores carry proper sealing silicone masks for ag spray pilots with built in microphones, and which have spin-on cartridge filters (helpful for the low level fill-in-the-gaps chemtrail missions I suppose) but you’d have to reverse the exhale valve, for reasons as described.
But with COVID-19 you are trying to prevent droplets generated in your mouth and lungs spraying out when you breathe out. So you need filtration for the out-breaths. That would be defeated by an exhale valve.
Some US pilot stores carry proper sealing silicone masks for ag spray pilots with built in microphones, and which have spin-on cartridge filters (helpful for the low level fill-in-the-gaps chemtrail missions I suppose) but you’d have to reverse the exhale valve, for reasons as described.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Flight training with masks?
As said, they are better than not being able to fly. Yes they are hot, and if you are wearing a baseball cap, boiling hot! You also really have to listen carefully to the other guy. Now is a good time to go flying: not too crowded, but there are still people out there, so be careful!
Re: Flight training with masks?
Wear your contacts and a disposable surgical mask that is the right size for your slightly larger than normal head. Most pilots are tipping in at hat sizes much greater than that.
- youhavecontrol
- Rank 5
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Re: Flight training with masks?
I wear a mask almost every day that I fly because of the nature of my work.
I've found the basic surgical masks quite comfortable and not much of a bother really. You can find them in different sizes. If you are worried about fogging, make sure the nose part is shaped correctly. Pointing an air vent so it's blowing across your face (maybe not into the mic) helps, as well as resting your glasses on top of the mask to help seal it to your nose helps too. Lastly, you can put a piece of tape across the top to stop air from escaping. The elastic strain can be relieved with a clip at the back of the head (there's hundreds of examples these days of what people have used to make them more comfortable) I haven't found any problems at all with using the headset with the mask.
An exhale valve will render the purpose of the mask useless unfortunately. The purpose of the basic mask is to contain your own droplet contamination. There's a ton of information you can find about this online.
Also, bring a small bottle of sanitizer with you and wipes to clean the high-touch surfaces, like the controls, seat belts, handles and checklists will help.
I actually DO have an A20 I'm looking to sell. I'll PM you.
I've found the basic surgical masks quite comfortable and not much of a bother really. You can find them in different sizes. If you are worried about fogging, make sure the nose part is shaped correctly. Pointing an air vent so it's blowing across your face (maybe not into the mic) helps, as well as resting your glasses on top of the mask to help seal it to your nose helps too. Lastly, you can put a piece of tape across the top to stop air from escaping. The elastic strain can be relieved with a clip at the back of the head (there's hundreds of examples these days of what people have used to make them more comfortable) I haven't found any problems at all with using the headset with the mask.
An exhale valve will render the purpose of the mask useless unfortunately. The purpose of the basic mask is to contain your own droplet contamination. There's a ton of information you can find about this online.
Also, bring a small bottle of sanitizer with you and wipes to clean the high-touch surfaces, like the controls, seat belts, handles and checklists will help.
I actually DO have an A20 I'm looking to sell. I'll PM you.
"I found that Right Rudder you kept asking for."
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Re: Flight training with masks?
Tips to avoid fogging up of classes while wearing a mask
https://youtu.be/7Rpna0mNXHE
I've been flying with my mask on and it works perfectly fine for me. Some find the disposable surgical masks work well but I personally feel more comfortable in washable cloth masks. To each their own I guess.
If you're looking for noise cancelling and want a more budget conscious headset, do look at the Lightspeed Sierra. It's around $850 and offers all the features as the top end models but is a bit bulkier (not more than the average David Clark) and offers almost the same levels of noise cancellation too. I've been using one for over 6 years and quite happy with it.
https://youtu.be/7Rpna0mNXHE
I've been flying with my mask on and it works perfectly fine for me. Some find the disposable surgical masks work well but I personally feel more comfortable in washable cloth masks. To each their own I guess.
If you're looking for noise cancelling and want a more budget conscious headset, do look at the Lightspeed Sierra. It's around $850 and offers all the features as the top end models but is a bit bulkier (not more than the average David Clark) and offers almost the same levels of noise cancellation too. I've been using one for over 6 years and quite happy with it.
Re: Flight training with masks?
If none of the commercially available masks fit you, find a pattern online that you can modify and make/sew your own. I found that worked well.
Re: Flight training with masks?
<... puts surgical tape into flight bag ...>praveen4143 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:05 am Tips to avoid fogging up of classes while wearing a mask
https://youtu.be/7Rpna0mNXHE
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Flight training with masks?
I have not had the need to wear a mask while flying. However, I wear one regularly for dusty workshop work. I agree that combining a mask and safety glasses results in fogged lenses. So yes, tape across the bridge of my nose. I find regular masking tape works perfectly fine. 'Probably looks dumb, but it's my workshop, and my lungs!
I suppose that if I need to fly dual, and masks are called for, I'll figure it out!
I suppose that if I need to fly dual, and masks are called for, I'll figure it out!
Re: Flight training with masks?
<... removes surgical tape from flight bag, puts masking tape into flight bag...>
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Flight training with masks?
I find cream cheese works well. It seals the gap, and as your head heats up, you get a mid flight snack out of it.
Seriously though, I am wondering of the effect of the mike under the mask. Doesn't that break the seal in a "defeat the purpose" way?
Seriously though, I am wondering of the effect of the mike under the mask. Doesn't that break the seal in a "defeat the purpose" way?
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Flight training with masks?
The mic stays outside the mask. (Think of the mask as an extended pop-shield).
You know, headset, mask, instrument hood... flight training is starting to feel like an experiment in sensory deprivation.
You know, headset, mask, instrument hood... flight training is starting to feel like an experiment in sensory deprivation.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Flight training with masks?
Doesn't seem to work in the (noisy) plane I fly. Most pilots at the company -granted, not flight training- seem to put it inside their mask.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Flight training with masks?
It should be very feasible to get a carbon mic capsule on its own lightweight wire and use some double sided tape to stick it inside the mask, especially if it's a more rigid dust mask kind of thing. Plug that in instead of the mic lead of the headset.
I will do some experimentation.
I will do some experimentation.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: Flight training with masks?
The O2 mask I have has a built in mic. To convert it to a filtered item or install the mic in another filtered mask should be a straight forward proposition. Not sure if one would need to bother with a filter, the mask itself should prevent most mouth spray from getting on other people. Unfortunately they're not cheap.
https://www.mhoxygen.com/product-catego ... ace-masks/
https://www.mhoxygen.com/product-catego ... ace-masks/
I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.
Re: Flight training with masks?
So has the green light been given to resume flight training by the government?RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:06 pm OK so flight training has been opened up in the GTA... I have some concerns about wearing masks while training.
Fist of all - I have a BIG head (sadly, not a big brain - 7 3/4 hat size). Most masks are OK for half an hour or so, but beyond that, they become... painful. And I mean, normally, I could just work through the pain, but that just won't work when I need to be at the top of my game for a two hour training session. I'm sure I can find something that will work though, but I'd love to hear suggestions.
Second - does anyone have any experience yet with using masks AND headsets? Jesus, the wires and elastics in such a small space just... intimidate me.
Third - I wear glasses, but usually I wear contacts while flying. My instructor related to me a particularly harrowing account of his glasses fogging up halfway through a takeoff roll, thanks entirely to his face mask. I'm not quite sure which risk I should take, or advocate that others take, and I'd like to hear other people's opinions.
And finally - I'm in the market for a headset, especially now that headsets can't be rented or borrowed. My local pilot shop sells the Bose A20 for $1400 - does that seem like a good price, and does anyone have one they're willing to sell, for less than that?
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Re: Flight training with masks?
Masks and headsets work fine with eyeglasses. I wear glasses and contact. Yeah, it takes a bit to get things in place so you don't get fogged up glasses. I also work close with medical staff, some who wear glasses. They have been wearing masks and shields for hours on end for the last few months without much issue other than some acne and blemishes where the mask sits.RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:06 pm does anyone have any experience yet with using masks AND headsets? Jesus, the wires and elastics in such a small space just... intimidate me.
Another thing to consider, when and if you ever pilot a pressurized bird and cabin pressure drops, you'll need to get on your mask. Get used to doing it.