FTU threw out my old PTR, need advice

[parm]

I started working on the PPL a long time ago and almost finished. When my original FTU went under, I took my signed off PTR to a new school about six years ago. I wasn't impressed with the school and after several hours eventually stopped booking lessons.

Fast-forward to today, and after arranging with the CFI to collect my records, he only left me a signed off piece of paper with the several hours I logged at that school, and a statement of account. He told me they discard student records two years after you stop flying with them. Needless to say I thought my paper PTR would be in a filing cabinet somewhere, but it sounds like it's long gone.

Lucky for me, I had the forethought to photocopy each page of my PTR 'just in case'. A few questions for those in the know:

1. Do FTUs really just discard old student records after a set period of time? It never once occurred to me that they'd do this.
2. If/when I ever decide to finish the license, will TC accept photocopies of my original PTR? Does my original CFI have to certify that the copies are legit? Do I swear an affidavit? I also have a personal log book and receipts, so if push came to shove I am readily able to prove those hours are mine, I just don't know how TC approaches these situations.

Thanks for any help.

[photofly]

I started working on the PPL a long time ago and almost finished. When my original FTU went under, I took my signed off PTR to a new school about six years ago. I wasn't impressed with the school and after several hours eventually stopped booking lessons.

Fast-forward to today, and after arranging with the CFI to collect my records, he only left me a signed off piece of paper with the several hours I logged at that school, and a statement of account. He told me they discard student records two years after you stop flying with them. Needless to say I thought my paper PTR would be in a filing cabinet somewhere, but it sounds like it's long gone.

Lucky for me, I had the forethought to photocopy each page of my PTR 'just in case'. A few questions for those in the know:

1. Do FTUs really just discard old student records after a set period of time?

Yes, all the time. It's ridiculous to expect an FTU to keep thousands and thousands of PTRs for all the students who disappear one day with never a goodbye, then waltz through the door years later and expect to pick up their documents as if no time had passed. An FTU is not a free archive facility for your paperwork, people.

Second point: if you weren't impressed by the FTU, why on earth did you trust them to keep your records? Did you think to yourself, "well the teaching is shit, but @#$! me the administration is so awesome I'm going to leave my important documents with them for *years* after I stop being a customer and they'll be safe forever"?

2. If/when I ever decide to finish the license, will TC accept photocopies of my original PTR?

Yes

Does my original CFI have to certify that the copies are legit?

No. If the copy you have includes the CFI's (or their delegate's) signature on the original page, that should be sufficient. If you're really nervous, you can ask the original CFI to countersign. If it makes you happier. If you're really nervous, go get a blank PTR and copy all the flights into it then ask your old CFI to sign the bottom of each page. That will take you about 30 minutes.

Do I swear an affidavit?

No.

I just don't know how TC approaches these situations.

It's mostly up the Authorized Person who will sign off your PPL privileges. I don't think anyone at TC cares to look too closely, as long as you have some evidence that the hours are legit.

[parm]

Yes, all the time. It's ridiculous to expect an FTU to keep thousands and thousands of PTRs for all the students who disappear one day with never a goodbye, then waltz through the door years later and expect to pick up their documents as if no time had passed. An FTU is not a free archive facility for your paperwork, people.

I evidently made a bad assumption about how FTUs operate. Live and learn.

Second point: if you weren't impressed by the FTU, why on earth did you trust them to keep your records? Did you think to yourself, "well the teaching is shit, but @#$! me the administration is so awesome I'm going to leave my important documents with them for *years* after I stop being a customer and they'll be safe forever"?

Don't read too far into my comment; I never implied the teaching is shit. It's actually quite a large flight school, it's just that I didn't like how impersonal it was coming from a little FTU at a quiet airport where I had a blast.

Thanks for the rest of the info.

[FreelanceInstructor]

I actually have a huge problem with this and the way the FTU conducted themselves. However, I must be clear. If you decided to leave the FTU for whichever reason, it would have been a good idea to collect your documents.

Now, directly from a TC inspector during an audit process I had been through as CFI at an FTU. Upon asking about how old PTR's are to be disposed of, the inspector stated that those documents are taken very seriously at transport. If there were any PTR's collecting dust, they were to be delivered to Transport. Since this is proof and record of work completed, the PTR needs to be accessible to people such as yourself in this situation. Therefore, I would suggest giving the TC office responsible for the oversight of that particular FTU and see if they possibly have it. If not, I would put a formal complaint in about that particular FTU.

While I don't think it's reasonable to expect FTUs to have huge filing cabinets for students who have come and gone on a moments notice, I think a very reasonable time period on their shelves would be sufficient, and if 2 years have lapsed without a word...don't just fu***** through it out and get them to the transport office where they could be stored properly. ISMH

[broken_slinky]

If there were any PTR's collecting dust, they were to be delivered to Transport.

Were any regs cited during that discussion? What is the reasonable time period an FTU is to maintain the PTR?

[Squaretail]

Yes, all the time. It's ridiculous to expect an FTU to keep thousands and thousands of PTRs for all the students who disappear

Indeed, words being important, CAR 405.33 specifies a person who conducts implying that it an individual instructor's responsibility to maintain the record, but also uses conducts as opposed to has conducted which to me implies that upon ceasing of the conducting of flight training, the instructor is absolved of the responsibility of maintaining the record immediately. One might bring that to a point in that no FTU is directly responsible for maintaining or storing your PTR, so students should act accordingly. It can also be argued that as soon as a lesson is completed without a reasonable agreement that said student is going to return to continue, the instructor is absolved of any further maintenance, and definitely in no case is responsible for storing a PTR.

Upon asking about how old PTR's are to be disposed of, the inspector stated that those documents are taken very seriously at transport. If there were any PTR's collecting dust, they were to be delivered to Transport.

Unfortunately the CARs give no direct guidance for this, though I have also gotten this opinion from TC inspectors. I have yet to hear of any FTU actually delivering a mass of files for TC's disposal upon ceasing operations (and I know of quite a few FTUs that have) nor of TC prosecuting anyone for failing to deliver said trove.

[455tt]

I started working on the PPL a long time ago and almost finished. When my original FTU went under, I took my signed off PTR to a new school about six years ago. I wasn't impressed with the school and after several hours eventually stopped booking lessons.

Fast-forward to today, and after arranging with the CFI to collect my records, he only left me a signed off piece of paper with the several hours I logged at that school, and a statement of account. He told me they discard student records two years after you stop flying with them. Needless to say I thought my paper PTR would be in a filing cabinet somewhere, but it sounds like it's long gone.

Lucky for me, I had the forethought to photocopy each page of my PTR 'just in case'. A few questions for those in the know:

1. Do FTUs really just discard old student records after a set period of time? It never once occurred to me that they'd do this.
2. If/when I ever decide to finish the license, will TC accept photocopies of my original PTR? Does my original CFI have to certify that the copies are legit? Do I swear an affidavit? I also have a personal log book and receipts, so if push came to shove I am readily able to prove those hours are mine, I just don't know how TC approaches these situations.

Thanks for any help.

I think you have done a very good job of covering all the bases in terms of having primary and secondary evidence of the training you completed and I don't think you will have any trouble with TC when you apply for licence. Lesson learned for others: when you quit a school(s), get possession of your up to date, original PTR when you leave and keep it in a secure location.

[2R]

What was it that left you unimpressed with the second flight school ?

[parm]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I got the PTR back! It turns out when my old instructor left, he passed along all his students' documents to another instructor, who then himself left at some point. The CFI tracked down that last instructor, who as it turns out had them squirreled away somewhere, not sure if at the school or at his home.

So lesson learned: don't leave important documents like that behind when you stop attending a school. And make photocopies!

[parm]

What was it that left you unimpressed with the second flight school ?

It wasn't a bad place by any stretch, just a very busy and almost clinical operation. Lots of time spent waiting for clearances and taxiing. My first 50 hours were at a quiet uncontrolled airport with a small school. I quickly developed a strong preference for that sort of experience once I started at the bigger school.