Requesting advise for career change to Pilot

[KiloDelta]

You could consider casually going into aviation if you can justify writing it off as an expensive hobby. That's what I did at 35; I'd like to do it professionally but don't know how feasible that is, so I started my PPL on the side of my regular job. Even if I stop after I finish that (which I almost have, at a ridiculous 100+ hours), nobody can take away the fact that I learned to fly a plane.

Things to consider are that the older we get, the harder we have to work to learn something new, and more importantly that it takes many more flight hours to become proficient at flying if you don't do it regularly. If possible I'd suggest trying to knock it out largely during vacation time or something, instead of dragging it out part time over nearly two years like I did.

After you finish the PPL you'll be in a better position to determine which way the wind is blowing with regards to a recovery in the industry, how much you like flying, and whether you want to make the leap to continue on and do your CPL, etc. I wrote off piloting as a career 9 years ago because the industry outlook wasn't good, and as a result I missed out on the unprecedented hiring over the past couple of years. Then I started training during the boom years to now be hit by Covid. Aviation is cyclical, and I think that getting started during a downturn isn't a bad thing - maybe even a good thing - as long as you have a backup plan.

If things go well, you can get your PPL done for about $15k or so, although I'd budget more like $20k at our age and if flying infrequently. I spent a good bit more than that, but am probably an outlier. Keep in mind that the prices that schools quote are usually assuming that you'll get your license with the 45 hour legal minimum, when the average amount of hours people take is more like 75.

As others have touched on already, if you want to go into it as a career be ready to spend close to your full savings on it (I'm budgeting about $80k), and after that you'll likely spend a couple of years at burger-flipping wages likely instructing in single-engine Cessnas, followed by a few more at lower-middle-class pay. The big payoff only comes later if you make it to the big airlines.

Before worrying about all that, though, I'd spend $200 on a fam flight for an instructor to take you up and see how you like it. From there you can decide to do the ground school online for another $200 or so. Spend the bigger money on flight time for your PPL once that has all gone well.

Thanks for the suggestion. 20k for a PPL seems awful lot, when my local flying club is quoting $9000. I do like aviation. I have been flying on VA Flight simulator over the years learnt all ATC terminology, reading airport charts (SIDS / STARS), a bit of IFR (VORs, VOR appoaches, DME arcs, ILS, RNAV) etc.. etc. I do enjoy this.

[photofly]

Thanks for the suggestion. 20k for a PPL seems awful lot, when my local flying club is quoting $9000.

They’re not quoting: a quotation is a guarantee of a fixed price, and nobody can offer you that.

They’re giving you the bare minimum price for the minimum hours in their cheapest aircraft with their cheapest instructor. The minimum training time required in law is 45 hours flight time. The national average is 72. That’s not even their average training time.

$20k is a sensible budget, and if you can manage it in $15k you can consider yourself ahead.

Flight simulators will slow your training considerably; your instructor will have to spend hours unteaching you all the wrong things you’ve managed to teach yourself in front of a computer instead of in an airplane. Meanwhile you will be resisting taking on board what your instructor is trying to teach you because it doesn’t match what you’ve (wrongly) taught yourself.

[KiloDelta]

Thanks for the suggestion. 20k for a PPL seems awful lot, when my local flying club is quoting $9000.

They’re not quoting: a quotation is a guarantee of a fixed price, and nobody can offer you that.

They’re giving you the bare minimum price for the minimum hours in their cheapest aircraft with their cheapest instructor. The minimum training time required in law is 45 hours flight time. The national average is 72. That’s not even their average training time.

$20k is a sensible budget, and if you can manage it in $15k you can consider yourself ahead.

Flight simulators will slow your training considerably; your instructor will have to spend hours unteaching you all the wrong things you’ve managed to teach yourself in front of a computer instead of in an airplane. Meanwhile you will be resisting taking on board what your instructor is trying to teach you because it doesn’t match what you’ve (wrongly) taught yourself.

Average cost of CPL+IFR+MIER+MIFR?

Do you think it is a good idea to take a line of credit from RBC, when do they start asking for money back?

[photofly]

A line of credit you can keep forever, you never have to pay it back. But the loan grows, unless you at least pay off the interest as it accrues. The interest rate will depend on what you secure the LoC - typically your house.

[KiloDelta]

Please have a look at this aerocadet.com, they train in Oshawa, ON. Then they have a period of internship both national and international to make you gain experience and ultimately land an airline job. The cost USD$60,000 and they claim that they are always full and have to reject applications. What is your opinion?

[altiplano]

Thanks for the suggestion. 20k for a PPL seems awful lot, when my local flying club is quoting $9000.

They’re not quoting: a quotation is a guarantee of a fixed price, and nobody can offer you that.

They’re giving you the bare minimum price for the minimum hours in their cheapest aircraft with their cheapest instructor. The minimum training time required in law is 45 hours flight time. The national average is 72. That’s not even their average training time.

$20k is a sensible budget, and if you can manage it in $15k you can consider yourself ahead.

Flight simulators will slow your training considerably; your instructor will have to spend hours unteaching you all the wrong things you’ve managed to teach yourself in front of a computer instead of in an airplane. Meanwhile you will be resisting taking on board what your instructor is trying to teach you because it doesn’t match what you’ve (wrongly) taught yourself.

72 hours is the average? That's crazy... is that people taking longer for tax reasons or the colleges dragging it out or something, maybe flying infrequently and not retaining? I did it in 50 without any trouble, if you set yourself to it and fly regularly it's a piece of piss.

Only thing PC sim will really help for is IFR, practicing your scan, flying the holds, the procedure turns, the approaches... figure the picture out on your monitor and it falls in place faster when you get in the plane and fly it.

[photofly]

72 hours is the average? That's crazy... is that people taking longer for tax reasons or the colleges dragging it out or something, maybe flying infrequently and not retaining?

How would it help with tax?

I put it down to poor student/instructor expectations and ineffective market pressures to improve.

[photofly]

Please have a look at this aerocadet.com, they train in Oshawa, ON. Then they have a period of internship both national and international to make you gain experience and ultimately land an airline job. The cost USD$60,000 and they claim that they are always full and have to reject applications. What is your opinion?

Good lord, its a slick website, isn't it?

That's basically a scam - the actual Canadian training is done by Canadian Flyers, in Oshawa. You could enroll directly with them and probably save a tonne of money. You'll get the same instructors and the same teaching, either way.

[AuxBatOn]

Please have a look at this aerocadet.com, they train in Oshawa, ON. Then they have a period of internship both national and international to make you gain experience and ultimately land an airline job. The cost USD$60,000 and they claim that they are always full and have to reject applications. What is your opinion?

“Internship” as in apply for a job and get hired... 60K USD is a lot.

There is no “easy”and cheap path to doing what you want.

[Bede]

Please have a look at this aerocadet.com, they train in Oshawa, ON. Then they have a period of internship both national and international to make you gain experience and ultimately land an airline job. The cost USD$60,000 and they claim that they are always full and have to reject applications. What is your opinion?

Run.

From http://aerocadet.com/legal.html

What is AeroCadet?
Aerocadet is a DBA trademark (Doing Business As) of Raich Aerospace Group LLC, a Florida limited Liability Company. Raich Aerospace Group LLC is registered as an aviation training consulting company and serves as an agent for affiliated FTPs (Flight Training Providers). Raich Aerospace Group LLC does not provide aviation training nor does it have accreditation to grant degrees or flight crew certificates. All flight and academic training is provided by the affiliated FTPs. Raich Aerospace Group LLC's primary services to the students include: enrollment consulting, aviation training consulting, pilot internship and pilot career development consulting.

They're in the business of separating aspiring airline pilots from their money.

[Blowin' In The Wind]

Thanks for the suggestion. 20k for a PPL seems awful lot, when my local flying club is quoting $9000.

They’re not quoting: a quotation is a guarantee of a fixed price, and nobody can offer you that.

They’re giving you the bare minimum price for the minimum hours in their cheapest aircraft with their cheapest instructor. The minimum training time required in law is 45 hours flight time. The national average is 72. That’s not even their average training time.

$20k is a sensible budget, and if you can manage it in $15k you can consider yourself ahead.

Flight simulators will slow your training considerably; your instructor will have to spend hours unteaching you all the wrong things you’ve managed to teach yourself in front of a computer instead of in an airplane. Meanwhile you will be resisting taking on board what your instructor is trying to teach you because it doesn’t match what you’ve (wrongly) taught yourself.

+1

[Tiberius]

I'm currently in the same boat. 40 stable career in engineering consulting. But the bug has bit me once again. This time around, I'm going for it, but I'm definitely keeping my day job.

I think a lot of good points have been made here, but consider why you chose the path that you did. For me, it was the fact that I had limited resources starting out. Aviation would had been more of a gamble, but engineering was a surer bet. I pursued that which I knew was attainable with said resources and I knew the ROI would be there at the end. I was not at all trying to 'pursue my dreams', I was trying to secure my livelihood.

My job today is a stable 9-5. I work for a good company, fairly decent benefits. I'm situated is a small community surrounded by lots of fishing and hiking spots. Lastly I have a home and a roof over my head. For me, I like the fact that I have a routine. 40 is the age that you're off warranty and you need to start paying attention to your health, having a routine is conducive to that end. It's easy to take all of that for granted.

If you're a software engineer, then perhaps this is more about getting out of your current situation than it is about getting into aviation. I went through the same thing when I was working in Toronto. If it is, then I would advise perhaps you keep your line of work, but find something that allows you to have the best of both worlds. Work Monday to Friday, then fly on the weekends, either professionally or as a hobby. As a software engineer making 90k, you have the means and resources to pursue what you want now.

In any case, you can only do one thing at a time and the extent to which we can plan the future is limited.. Get your PPL, then make a decision. For me, I plan to to the same, maybe a single IFR as well, then fly occasionally for recreation. At some point, I may get the CPL and an instructor rating to teach on weekends, but I'm leaving that decision further down the road. If I do make a career in aviation, part-time flight instructor is as far as I want to go, but it's just an idea at the moment. Not a set plan. Step 1 is the PPL. Good luck.

[Tiberius]

With regard to PPL costs, I'm budgeting around $25,000 as well as any disposable income over my training period. . I've seen the 15 to 18k figures on some sites. Keep in mind that a lot of schools post 'before tax' figures so you need to factor that in, and then I would advise adding an additional 20% for supplies, training overruns, unforeseen incidentals or dare I say, new taxes being dreamed up.

[altiplano]

72 hours is the average? That's crazy... is that people taking longer for tax reasons or the colleges dragging it out or something, maybe flying infrequently and not retaining?

How would it help with tax?

I put it down to poor student/instructor expectations and ineffective market pressures to improve.

It's been a while, and maybe it's changed but IIRC in BC you didn't pay PST on rentals involved in a course, ie. PPL, but the rentals for time building for CPL was not part of the CPL course in itself, so 7% PST applied.

The idea was time build solo flying as much as you could without getting licensed and save 7%.

[KiloDelta]

I'm currently in the same boat. 40 stable career in engineering consulting. But the bug has bit me once again. This time around, I'm going for it, but I'm definitely keeping my day job.

I think a lot of good points have been made here, but consider why you chose the path that you did. For me, it was the fact that I had limited resources starting out. Aviation would had been more of a gamble, but engineering was a surer bet. I pursued that which I knew was attainable with said resources and I knew the ROI would be there at the end. I was not at all trying to 'pursue my dreams', I was trying to secure my livelihood.

My job today is a stable 9-5. I work for a good company, fairly decent benefits. I'm situated is a small community surrounded by lots of fishing and hiking spots. Lastly I have a home and a roof over my head. For me, I like the fact that I have a routine. 40 is the age that you're off warranty and you need to start paying attention to your health, having a routine is conducive to that end. It's easy to take all of that for granted.

If you're a software engineer, then perhaps this is more about getting out of your current situation than it is about getting into aviation. I went through the same thing when I was working in Toronto. If it is, then I would advise perhaps you keep your line of work, but find something that allows you to have the best of both worlds. Work Monday to Friday, then fly on the weekends, either professionally or as a hobby. As a software engineer making 90k, you have the means and resources to pursue what you want now.

In any case, you can only do one thing at a time and the extent to which we can plan the future is limited.. Get your PPL, then make a decision. For me, I plan to to the same, maybe a single IFR as well, then fly occasionally for recreation. At some point, I may get the CPL and an instructor rating to teach on weekends, but I'm leaving that decision further down the road. If I do make a career in aviation, part-time flight instructor is as far as I want to go, but it's just an idea at the moment. Not a set plan. Step 1 is the PPL. Good luck.

Hi Tiberius,
Im exactly in the same boat as you are. Over the past I worked for several engineering consultancies, now I have a stable career. But oh boy, how boring and dull this career is.
As you say at 40, the body is off-waranty and routine disruption is very unhealthy. I take care of myself with regular exercise.

Are you planning to get into the airlines? I can get a PPL anytime, not really worried about it, but I dont want to get into aviation just to fly clunky old cessnas with analog gauges. I fancy jets and turboprops with glass cockpits. Not sure how I will make it. If I was single I would have jumped right into it. Now Im married with 2 kids and my wife is a homemaker. Kids are just starting to go school, but that is delayed due to COVID-19. I regret and hate myself for not getting into aviation in my late teens. I also like you always worried & thought about securing my livelihood. However then I come to this forum and find that pilots are neither happy and want to change careers themselves.

[KiloDelta]

Please have a look at this aerocadet.com, they train in Oshawa, ON. Then they have a period of internship both national and international to make you gain experience and ultimately land an airline job. The cost USD$60,000 and they claim that they are always full and have to reject applications. What is your opinion?

Run.

From http://aerocadet.com/legal.html

What is AeroCadet?
Aerocadet is a DBA trademark (Doing Business As) of Raich Aerospace Group LLC, a Florida limited Liability Company. Raich Aerospace Group LLC is registered as an aviation training consulting company and serves as an agent for affiliated FTPs (Flight Training Providers). Raich Aerospace Group LLC does not provide aviation training nor does it have accreditation to grant degrees or flight crew certificates. All flight and academic training is provided by the affiliated FTPs. Raich Aerospace Group LLC's primary services to the students include: enrollment consulting, aviation training consulting, pilot internship and pilot career development consulting.

They're in the business of separating aspiring airline pilots from their money.

Thanks Bede, Auxbaton & photofly, for providing advice on this college. I cant believe that their are scammers everywhere, such as aerocadets.com.

[ayseven]

The OP asked about type ratings. Go buy one if you want to do it for fun, and you have more money than you know what to do with. An employer won't give you a second look with it. They want to train you their way.

However, I personally think it would be a great experience, but it is a lot of intense work in a short period of time. Then as the months go by with no job, the information gets lost, and your hard earned has gone down the drain basically. You would be amazing at the home sim though.

At the end of the day, nothing ventured, nothing gained, and a life of adventure awaits, in very beautiful, but unglamorous places (have you been to Red Lake, ON for example?), but please do not be surprised if it ends in complete frustration. You will simply not make the kind of money you can make elsewhere, and at some point you will need to look at retiring, and living off savings... everything is a job after a while.

Buy a plane - lots of people are looking for partners to share costs. Go flying on weekends, wherever you want. Enjoy it. Go home. It is rough right now, and I don't think many people would encourage anyone to get into flying for a living, unless they want your money.

ps. there are always the freaks who make huge bucks at airlines, but I have never met any of them (I never moved in those circles), and they usually paid heavy dues to get there.

[TalkingPie]

Average cost of CPL+IFR+MIER+MIFR?

Do you think it is a good idea to take a line of credit from RBC, when do they start asking for money back?

Now that you've heard from a few more people regarding the cost of the PPL, maybe my estimate of $80k to get trained up to a standard where you'd be qualified to fly for a living will carry some credibility. Some of it will be tax deductible.

Regarding your other question: a new Cessna 172 is in the $300k+ range. No one does that. What they do is buy a 40 year old C152 or 172 for $25-80k or so, plus all the other attendant costs that come with plane ownership. There are threads that'll inform you about the ups and downs of that, if you're interested.

You make a decent salary, but I don't see it being nearly enough to support a family of 4 in Canada and do the shiny aircraft thing. You can potentially do the modest, work-your-way-up-from-old-single-engine-engined-Cessnas thing. If you haven't tried it outside of a simulator yet, you really should spend the $200 on a fam flight. You may find out that it's quite a different experience.

[hank998899]

I'm currently in the same boat. 40 stable career in engineering consulting. But the bug has bit me once again. This time around, I'm going for it, but I'm definitely keeping my day job.

I think a lot of good points have been made here, but consider why you chose the path that you did. For me, it was the fact that I had limited resources starting out. Aviation would had been more of a gamble, but engineering was a surer bet. I pursued that which I knew was attainable with said resources and I knew the ROI would be there at the end. I was not at all trying to 'pursue my dreams', I was trying to secure my livelihood.

My job today is a stable 9-5. I work for a good company, fairly decent benefits. I'm situated is a small community surrounded by lots of fishing and hiking spots. Lastly I have a home and a roof over my head. For me, I like the fact that I have a routine. 40 is the age that you're off warranty and you need to start paying attention to your health, having a routine is conducive to that end. It's easy to take all of that for granted.

If you're a software engineer, then perhaps this is more about getting out of your current situation than it is about getting into aviation. I went through the same thing when I was working in Toronto. If it is, then I would advise perhaps you keep your line of work, but find something that allows you to have the best of both worlds. Work Monday to Friday, then fly on the weekends, either professionally or as a hobby. As a software engineer making 90k, you have the means and resources to pursue what you want now.

In any case, you can only do one thing at a time and the extent to which we can plan the future is limited.. Get your PPL, then make a decision. For me, I plan to to the same, maybe a single IFR as well, then fly occasionally for recreation. At some point, I may get the CPL and an instructor rating to teach on weekends, but I'm leaving that decision further down the road. If I do make a career in aviation, part-time flight instructor is as far as I want to go, but it's just an idea at the moment. Not a set plan. Step 1 is the PPL. Good luck.

I'm 27, same boat with stable income, working in IT and just got my CPL and am going to get my MIFR within the next two weeks. What are your ideas of keeping your day gig while being in aviation for the next little while? I have some savings left so I was reconsidering and thinking of just abandoning ship and sucking up the bad pay and instruct full time at a flight school after my instructor's rating. Just a bit confused about what's next...

[Pilotdaddy]

I'm 27, same boat with stable income, working in IT and just got my CPL and am going to get my MIFR within the next two weeks. What are your ideas of keeping your day gig while being in aviation for the next little while? I have some savings left so I was reconsidering and thinking of just abandoning ship and sucking up the bad pay and instruct full time at a flight school after my instructor's rating. Just a bit confused about what's next...

The truth is, no one knows. If there were a straightforward answer to this, then all the fun in life would be gone. Imagine already knowing what tomorrow brings with 100% certainty? What's the point of today, then.

The hardest part is giving up stable income. But if all you wanted is a stable income, then you wouldn't be entertaining changing careers now, would you? I made this exact same jump last year and I still don't regret it... covid and all. However, I'm just merely sharing my thoughts... your results will vary and, at the end of the day, I think that you should only compare yourself against yourself. Everyone else's path and opinion are just background noise.