Flight Instructor Rating

[Aviatard]

just that it doesnt need to be an official TX guy but a class 1 who is approved from TC. Which are all over the place in ontario

Do you personally know or have contacts for any in Ontario you could possibly share in PM?
I’m trying to find someone to do my FI flight test and the ones I reached out to said they’re not going to be doing it for a while.

Try calling Cornwall, I believe they have 2 Class 1's right now. They'll get you in and out pretty quick if you know your stuff. The guy who did mine years ago is at Spectrum Airways in Burlington, maybe call them if you havent. There is another guy at St. Catharines club but last I heard he was on leave dont know if hes back or not. Good luck!

If I've understood the person correctly, I believe the poster was looking for a Pilot Examiner, not a Class 1 Instructor. There is still the problem of getting an airplane, unless the poster has one available.

[youhavecontrol]

What are you going to do after you get the rating? As a Class IV instructor, you're pretty much useless: you can't do anything on your own, you have to be supervised by and work for a Flight Training Unit. Is that your plan? You don't have to discuss it here, but you should know what it is.

Dude.. how long do you expect it takes to go beyond a class 4? You make it sound like he's stuck being useless and that nobody will want him. Sure it might be a challenge right now (with the ol' Rona kicking around), but if he lands a job, he's set. Getting the upgrade to Class 3 doesn't take long at all. You're definitely not useless, and it's not as if the company is under some burden of constantly supervising you. While I worked as an instructor, I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me, leaving me free to deal with other tasks. "You can't do anything on your own" is simply not true... it's ridiculous.

Landing the job may be a challenge, but flight schools won't despise a Class 4 if there's work to be done. I'd try one of the schools with international cadets, like Moncton Flight College, or Montair. They're always busy and probably the best place to look for a job.

[Kaykay]

What are you going to do after you get the rating? As a Class IV instructor, you're pretty much useless: you can't do anything on your own, you have to be supervised by and work for a Flight Training Unit. Is that your plan? You don't have to discuss it here, but you should know what it is.

Dude.. how long do you expect it takes to go beyond a class 4? You make it sound like he's stuck being useless and that nobody will want him. Sure it might be a challenge right now (with the ol' Rona kicking around), but if he lands a job, he's set. Getting the upgrade to Class 3 doesn't take long at all. You're definitely not useless, and it's not as if the company is under some burden of constantly supervising you. While I worked as an instructor, I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me, leaving me free to deal with other tasks. "You can't do anything on your own" is simply not true... it's ridiculous.

Landing the job may be a challenge, but flight schools won't despise a Class 4 if there's work to be done. I'd try one of the schools with international cadets, like Moncton Flight College, or Montair. They're always busy and probably the best place to look for a job.

I agree with youhavecontrol that a Class 4 is not useless. Don’t let anyone tell you that. If someone says that, that person was either a Class 4 once too and forgets that fact and how it felt to be one or wasn’t ever an instructor and is not someone who I’d recommend putting a lot of stake in what they say. Every instructor no matter how amazing they think they are was a Class 4 once. A couple clarifying points to add though:

The time it takes to progress beyond class 4 is dependant on the person and the situation. You are right, it may not take long but there are many people where it does. And from a regulatory perspective, yes the company is in fact under a burden of constant supervision. This is true for ALL instructors; even Class 1 instructors are supervised by their CFI. Also it is technically true they can’t do anything on their own; training they facilitate towards an RPP, PPL, or CPL requires daily supervision and sign off by a supervising instructor.

To the OP: as youhavecontrol said, get your rating and apply like crazy everywhere. You don’t know where you’ll get a job but get one and get to work and you’ll be fine. Get your qualification first though. Also, I’ve been hearing recently Montair is not busy right now so....old rules of thumb may not be applicable during this time sadly.

[photofly]

If you're a class IV instructor without a job, you are totally useless. I'm sorry if that hurts some people's feelings. Unless you have a plan to get a job, there's no point getting the rating.

I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me,

And we wonder why it takes students hundreds of hours to get a PPL. With an attitude like this from the CFI (wtf are "endless circuits"? and why is training a student in the circuit "grunt work"? Could you possibly be any more disrespectful to the students whose training you are supposed to be supervising?) the mystery is solved.

[youhavecontrol]

If you're a class IV instructor without a job, you are totally useless. I'm sorry if that hurts some people's feelings. Unless you have a plan to get a job, there's no point getting the rating.

I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me,

And we wonder why it takes students hundreds of hours to get a PPL. With an attitude like this from the CFI (wtf are "endless circuits"? and why is training a student in the circuit "grunt work"? Could you possibly be any more disrespectful to the students whose training you are supposed to be supervising?) the mystery is solved.

By that logic anyone without a job in their current field is totally useless. What point are you even making other than to discourage them?

Perhaps the hyperbole was lost on you when I said "endless circuits" ...as someone who has taught nearly a hundred licenses, circuit lessons started to bore the hell out of me. That's no disrespect to the student, but after a few years I found it far more rewarding to fly with a challenging student that a Class 4 needed help on, than a dozen average and improving students that gave me no new challenge and a class 4 could easily handle. You can still do a great job at something even when it bores you to tears... doesn't mean I disrespect the work that they do, but with experience you get to handle the more interesting lessons.

Don't give me that, "And we wonder why it takes students hundreds of hours..." sermon. It's ok to be bored at something after you've served your time doing it and would rather watch and help others do it for you. That's exactly what the perk of being a senior instructor is.

[photofly]

If you're a class IV instructor without a job, you are totally useless. I'm sorry if that hurts some people's feelings. Unless you have a plan to get a job, there's no point getting the rating.

I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me,

And we wonder why it takes students hundreds of hours to get a PPL. With an attitude like this from the CFI (wtf are "endless circuits"? and why is training a student in the circuit "grunt work"? Could you possibly be any more disrespectful to the students whose training you are supposed to be supervising?) the mystery is solved.

By that logic anyone without a job in their current field is totally useless. What point are you even making other than to discourage them?

The point I am making is that there's no point doing an instructor rating unless you have a job at an FTU lined up. I don't know how I can make it more clearly. Let me give it one more go.

The OP asked:

If you could add anything else that would help it would be appreciated.

So I said

What are you going to do after you get the rating? As a Class IV instructor, you're pretty much useless: you can't do anything on your own, you have to be supervised by and work for a Flight Training Unit. Is that your plan? You don't have to discuss it here, but you should know what it is.

And then I said

If you're a class IV instructor without a job, you are totally useless. I'm sorry if that hurts some people's feelings. Unless you have a plan to get a job, there's no point getting the rating.

And then I said:

there's no point doing an instructor rating unless you have a job at an FTU lined up.

Now are you starting to understand the point I'm making? Lots of people think that having an instructor rating would be cool, and they can boast about it to their friends and women in bars, but the reality is unless you're prepared to undergo indentured servitude at an FTU for a period of time it's completely useless. The modern slavery that is being a class IV instructor at an FTU may seem normal to a seventeen-year-old who's never been out of his parent's basement, but to regular adults who are used to proper, respectable jobs, paying wages they can live on, it's equivalent to penal servitude. That puts it out of the sensible reach of anyone with a real job, who can't afford to take a year off work.

That's no disrespect to the student

Uh-huh.

[Kaykay]

The point I am making is that there's no point doing an instructor rating unless you have a job at an FTU lined up. I don't know how I can make it more clearly. Let me give it one more go.

Photofly, maybe your advice works where you are, but where I have taught, there’s no such thing as lining up a job at an FTU before you do the rating. You do the rating, get qualified, and then apply for a job.

[youhavecontrol]

The point I am making is that there's no point doing an instructor rating unless you have a job at an FTU lined up. I don't know how I can make it more clearly...

...Lots of people think that having an instructor rating would be cool, and they can boast about it to their friends and women in bars, but the reality is unless you're prepared to undergo indentured servitude at an FTU for a period of time it's completely useless...

Ok three things:

1. I think the OP already knows that getting the instructor rating without the intent of pursuing a job would be frivolous activity. If they do intend a full time instructor job, it's NOT useless, and if they don't, I'm sure they still don't need you spelling out how "useless" it is, any more than telling someone not to get a seaplane rating because it's useless, even if it's fun and improves their flying. The instructor rating isn't even that expensive compared to other training a person could do because reasons.

2. How do you line up a job you don't yet qualify for anyways?

3. Right now an instructor rating is absolutely what I would do if I was starting out again. It's where the work currently is, and it will keep you busy when more students come in, and eventually give you a decent lead when hiring starts again. Being a Class 4 doesn't last long.

You jumped to a conclusion about me somehow wasting student's time over-flying them because I said I was bored in the circuit, and then a little while later wrote about how instructors boast in bars about being flight instructors, then you're talking about servitude for a period of time (what, like 4-6 months until they get the Class 3?)... you've got some chips on your shoulder.

*edit* I don't know how this text ended up bold, but I can't change it.

[Aviatard]

I don’t think you’re going to go from class 4 to class 3 in 4 months.

[photofly]

3. Right now an instructor rating is absolutely what I would do if I was starting out again. It's where the work currently is,

Not a lot of hiring going on.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I don’t think you’re going to go from class 4 to class 3 in 4 months.

I went from a Class 4 to a class 3 in 2.5 months. I was hired for the air cadet program at my flying school. When it was finished I had enough hours with them plus picking up flights for the schools regular students to have the Class 3 pre requisites by the time air cadets graduated. I was then hired full time at the end of the summer when another instructor left.

Class 2, 2years after my initial flight instructor flight test and a Class 1, 3 years after that

All the schools in my area are going flat out and one of them hired a brand new Class 4 last month.

[Squaretail]

3. Right now an instructor rating is absolutely what I would do if I was starting out again. It's where the work currently is,

Not a lot of hiring going on.

Depends on where you're at right now. The schools in Alberta are still running full tilt, and AFAIK, they're constantly looking for people. That said, as is typical in aviation, your hireability with any given rating depends highly on your mobility. If your instructor dreams are based solely upon a single school that's convenient for you to get on with, well one might be out of luck.

[ayseven]

It isn't like there is anything else to get too excited about. There are literally thousands of well qualified, young pilots out of work. Might as well go for it.

[Aviatard]

I don’t think you’re going to go from class 4 to class 3 in 4 months.

I went from a Class 4 to a class 3 in 2.5 months. I was hired for the air cadet program at my flying school. When it was finished I had enough hours with them plus picking up flights for the schools regular students to have the Class 3 pre requisites by the time air cadets graduated. I was then hired full time at the end of the summer when another instructor left.

Ok sure. I didn't say nobody ever did the upgrade to class 3 in 4 months. Air Cadets fly 6 days a week and finish in 45 hours over 6 weeks. So yes, if you have 2 or 3 cadets for students, you can absolutely upgrade quickly. I did the same thing, starting out teaching cadets.

This isn't a typical scenario though. Upgrade times around these parts are more like a year. Getting the 3 solos isn't much of a problem but the 3 flight tests that are required for the upgrade is harder.

[Avi-Nation]

If one were to finish his CPL in the coming months, what rating would be the next best step? M.E & Multi-IFR or Instructor Rating?

[youhavecontrol]

If one were to finish his CPL in the coming months, what rating would be the next best step? M.E & Multi-IFR or Instructor Rating?

I went straight for my instructor's rating and did the Multi and Group 1 later. That way I was able to start working for an FTU, building hours and saving money towards the other ratings. Then I had a friend at the FTU train me in the Seminole at the school's rental staff discount. No briefing fees or instructor's fee (except for some beers), plus no excessive training curriculum like the students went through. I saved like $10,000 and soon was able to start instructing on the twin, building PIC time. With the lack of movement, that path might not be achievable right now though, but if you can at least get your foot in the door as an instructor, that probably would be the safest bet at landing any kind of flying job right now.

[Avi-Nation]

If one were to finish his CPL in the coming months, what rating would be the next best step? M.E & Multi-IFR or Instructor Rating?

I went straight for my instructor's rating and did the Multi and Group 1 later. That way I was able to start working for an FTU, building hours and saving money towards the other ratings. Then I had a friend at the FTU train me in the Seminole at the school's rental staff discount. No briefing fees or instructor's fee (except for some beers), plus no excessive training curriculum like the students went through. I saved like $10,000 and soon was able to start instructing on the twin, building PIC time. With the lack of movement, that path might not be achievable right now though, but if you can at least get your foot in the door as an instructor, that probably would be the safest bet at landing any kind of flying job right now.

Appreciate the feedback! I wouldn't mind instructing (crazy hey?) and would move anywhere (I'm in Alberta) for the opportunity. Best thing to do for now is prepare & wait.