Has anybody given up?

This forum has been developed to discuss flight instruction/University and College programs.

Moderators: Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia

sjatana
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:02 pm

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by sjatana »

newlygrounded wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.
No, and I never will.

Your points are valid and I don't disagree with you. I've had the bug since as far back as I can remember in my life and although the current situation sucks this is a great career. It takes a lot of inside work to look past the realities of our industry and the current situation. I started a bit later as a career changer with zero regrets. I've always believed in doing what you love and I am lucky to say that it actually pays off in how content with life one is. Then again, I'm not chasing $$$, the big house or the fancy car...

I don't judge anyone that gives up. Everyone has their reasons and people should do what's best for them.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
youhavecontrol
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by youhavecontrol »

Don't give up.

I had zero savings and pretty 'meh' marks in high school, which made it difficult to apply for financial assistance and scholarships. I lived in a rural area which was too far away from a cadet program. Where I came from, saying you wanted to be a pilot was almost like saying you wanted to be an astronaut. The high school career councillor was like, "um... are you sure? We don't have any information about pilots to give you."

So what did I do? Straight out of high school, I took my H2S safety course, First Aid, WHMIS, TDG, Confined Spaces, and started a job in the oilfield as a pipeliner. I remember slogging through knee deep mud, looking up at the pipeline patrol aircraft flying overhead thinking "one day.." After two years, I had enough savings to start my training. I was bad with money though and the money ran out when I started my CPL training. I had to put it on pause, but because of a recession, I could not go back to the oilfield, so I spent 2 years working as the lead janitor at our college. After two years, I had a job offer operating a steam truck in the oilfield, so I left that and started operating a steam truck on rigs and frac's in Northern Alberta and Southern Manitoba for a few years. Once I finally had paid off my debt and saved a bunch of money, I completed my CPL and instructor's rating.

I started a job as an instructor and spent 5 years teaching, while saving up for my Group 1 rating. Once I had that finished, I took on a job with a great 703 company and have been employed and loving it ever since. It took a while of slogging through the sh*t, but if you really want it, you can do it. Compared to what I used to do, my job is pretty freaking amazing. It might be a little less $, but no more breathing in diesel exhaust, throwing chains on my tires, or worrying about H2S leaks and sitting it ditches.
---------- ADS -----------
 
"I found that Right Rudder you kept asking for."
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by rookiepilot »

newlygrounded wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:20 am
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:04 am
photofly wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:30 pm

Struggling to see how taking multiple years to part-get a PPL meets the test for “burning out”, but look, if you don’t enjoy flying then you really are in the wrong career path.
And I'm sorry, but using the word "burnt out" in relation to something like flight training disrespects that very word.

Are you kidding us?

A lot of shit life can throw at you -- --- a lot more serious.
For someone who has made a post about depression you don't seem to be very good at standing in someone else's shoes. You don't know the sacrifices people make to do the things they do. A small river will carve out a huge valley given enough time.
Are you A) making fun of depression?
Or B ) are depressed yourself?

If it's really B) I suspect the reasons might run deeper than the status of flight training.

If it's A) we have nothing more to discuss.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3344
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by digits_ »

rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:51 pm
newlygrounded wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:20 am
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:04 am

And I'm sorry, but using the word "burnt out" in relation to something like flight training disrespects that very word.

Are you kidding us?

A lot of shit life can throw at you -- --- a lot more serious.
For someone who has made a post about depression you don't seem to be very good at standing in someone else's shoes. You don't know the sacrifices people make to do the things they do. A small river will carve out a huge valley given enough time.
Are you A) making fun of depression?
Or B ) are depressed yourself?

If it's really B) I suspect the reasons might run deeper than the status of flight training.

If it's A) we have nothing more to discuss.
He's got a valid point though.

"Talk about depression, reach out... except if I find the reason not serious enough, then shut up".

If you start comparing the shit life has thrown at you as a benchmark to decide whether or not someone has the right to call himself depressed or burned out, you're destroying everything you've tried to build up in other threads.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by rookiepilot »

digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:59 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:51 pm
newlygrounded wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:20 am

For someone who has made a post about depression you don't seem to be very good at standing in someone else's shoes. You don't know the sacrifices people make to do the things they do. A small river will carve out a huge valley given enough time.
Are you A) making fun of depression?
Or B ) are depressed yourself?

If it's really B) I suspect the reasons might run deeper than the status of flight training.

If it's A) we have nothing more to discuss.
He's got a valid point though.

"Talk about depression, reach out... except if I find the reason not serious enough, then shut up".

If you start comparing the shit life has thrown at you as a benchmark to decide whether or not someone has the right to call himself depressed or burned out, you're destroying everything you've tried to build up in other threads.
He's not referring to depression re (his) situation at all. So I have no idea what he, or you, are talking about. Hence, I asked.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8697
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: engaged in another pointless discussion to nowhere

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by photofly »

digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:59 pm If you start comparing the shit life has thrown at you as a benchmark to decide whether or not someone has the right to call himself depressed or burned out, you're destroying everything you've tried to build up in other threads.
Depression isn’t a charter right: it’s a diagnosis, and a serious medical disorder.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Strike me down with all of your hatred & your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
digits_
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3344
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:53 pm
digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:59 pm If you start comparing the shit life has thrown at you as a benchmark to decide whether or not someone has the right to call himself depressed or burned out, you're destroying everything you've tried to build up in other threads.
Depression isn’t a charter right: it’s a diagnosis, and a serious medical disorder.
Agreed. But if an undiagnosed depressed or burned out person is afraid to seek help because he hasn't had a certain amount of shit in his life, then he might never get that diagnosis and/or the help needed.

So implying that a certain situation is not enough to be considered burned out, does not help anyone.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3127
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by CpnCrunch »

newlygrounded wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:37 am
A big issue for me is house prices always go up where I am, in 1 month they went up $100,000 and they kept going up the rest of the year. I honestly don't find flying even fun anymore but I'm not sure if that's just the burnout talking or is it a permanent thing.
It sounds like your school might be part of the problem. Flying should be fun, but if there are a lot of hassles related to your training, then that will suck the joy out of it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by rookiepilot »

digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:03 pm
photofly wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:53 pm
digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:59 pm If you start comparing the shit life has thrown at you as a benchmark to decide whether or not someone has the right to call himself depressed or burned out, you're destroying everything you've tried to build up in other threads.
Depression isn’t a charter right: it’s a diagnosis, and a serious medical disorder.
Agreed. But if an undiagnosed depressed or burned out person is afraid to seek help because he hasn't had a certain amount of shit in his life, then he might never get that diagnosis and/or the help needed.

So implying that a certain situation is not enough to be considered burned out, does not help anyone.
Deleted
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by rookiepilot on Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
digits_
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3344
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by digits_ »

rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:15 pm If it's serious enough to be clinical depression --- which is a whole lot different than "burn out" -- whatever that means ---
You're doing it again. Clinical depression is real, but "burn out" deserves quotes and a "whatever that means"? Seriously?
Yes they are different, but both have serious consequences for ones mental health.
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:15 pm
These terms aren't to be thrown around lightly, and agreeing for a second that a lousy flight training experience is likely ever the cause of a serious, major life issue isn't doing anyone any favours.
How often is depression caused by a single issue? How often does it have a single cause?

It is entirely plausible that a never ending frustration with trying to achieve your dream and seeing that reward and achievement pushed out of reach time after time, could be the significant issue that pushes you to just beyond what you can tolerate, making you wonder if you should give up.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3127
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by CpnCrunch »

digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:44 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:15 pm If it's serious enough to be clinical depression --- which is a whole lot different than "burn out" -- whatever that means ---
You're doing it again. Clinical depression is real, but "burn out" deserves quotes and a "whatever that means"? Seriously?
Yes they are different, but both have serious consequences for ones mental health.
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:15 pm
These terms aren't to be thrown around lightly, and agreeing for a second that a lousy flight training experience is likely ever the cause of a serious, major life issue isn't doing anyone any favours.
How often is depression caused by a single issue? How often does it have a single cause?

It is entirely plausible that a never ending frustration with trying to achieve your dream and seeing that reward and achievement pushed out of reach time after time, could be the significant issue that pushes you to just beyond what you can tolerate, making you wonder if you should give up.
There is a lot of research into burnout if anyone cares to look. Depression is a common symptom of burnout. Like depression, burnout varies in severity, and it definitely sounds like the OP Is somewhere on that scale.

It's ridiculous to say that any particular set of circumstances aren't sufficient to produce burnout or depression. The circumstances necessary to produce very severe depression and burnout are actually a lot less than you would imagine, and if you find yourself on that road you really should do something about it sooner rather than later.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ayseven
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 489
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:17 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by ayseven »

Life is hard. If there is something else that you would rather do, get on it. You have to want it. Badly.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8697
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: engaged in another pointless discussion to nowhere

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by photofly »

digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:03 pm
photofly wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:53 pm
digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:59 pm If you start comparing the shit life has thrown at you as a benchmark to decide whether or not someone has the right to call himself depressed or burned out, you're destroying everything you've tried to build up in other threads.
Depression isn’t a charter right: it’s a diagnosis, and a serious medical disorder.
Agreed. But if an undiagnosed depressed or burned out person is afraid to seek help because he hasn't had a certain amount of shit in his life, then he might never get that diagnosis and/or the help needed.

So implying that a certain situation is not enough to be considered burned out, does not help anyone.
You can call yourself whatever you want, but if a couple of questions on an anonymous web forum are enough to tip you away from seeking medical help for a serious mental health condition, I’m going to suggest that is not the time to be worrying about non-existent pilot career, and that there are some other things you should prioritize in your life and development.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Strike me down with all of your hatred & your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
newlygrounded
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:28 pm

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by newlygrounded »

digits_ wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:44 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:15 pm If it's serious enough to be clinical depression --- which is a whole lot different than "burn out" -- whatever that means ---
You're doing it again. Clinical depression is real, but "burn out" deserves quotes and a "whatever that means"? Seriously?
Yes they are different, but both have serious consequences for ones mental health.
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:15 pm
These terms aren't to be thrown around lightly, and agreeing for a second that a lousy flight training experience is likely ever the cause of a serious, major life issue isn't doing anyone any favours.
How often is depression caused by a single issue? How often does it have a single cause?

It is entirely plausible that a never ending frustration with trying to achieve your dream and seeing that reward and achievement pushed out of reach time after time, could be the significant issue that pushes you to just beyond what you can tolerate, making you wonder if you should give up.
Bingo! I'd never make fun of depression or someone who claims to feel that way as I've lost people in my life to it.

The fact I don't even enjoy this anymore (is this normal in training?) along with all the BS that is coming up in training, and not being able to see a clear path to a livable career has burnt me out in terms of pursuing flying. (Burnout in my mind is when the energy to keep going is well above the energy you have available)

I'm not depressed, but my hobby (and what was to be a future career) turning into a liability did take a big hit on my happiness.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3344
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:49 pm if a couple of questions on an anonymous web forum are enough to tip you away from seeking medical help for a serious mental health condition, I’m going to suggest that is not the time to be worrying about non-existent pilot career, and that there are some other things you should prioritize in your life and development.
Maybe. It's a cumulative process.

I'd wager that remarks in a topic specifically about this situation, would probably hold a bit more weight to the OP than a random tweet by an idiot on twitter. A topic on a forum that had some interesting discussions about depression and mental health, and seemed to encourage people to look for help and reach out etc. Then some of those same people that posted warm and encouraging messages suddenly have a real cavalier attitude towards OP's problem and want to decide what does and does not qualify as a serious issue? I think something like this might have more effect than you'd think. This info is being read and asked for by someone who admits that he isn't in the best place mentally in the first place.

And in the unlikely scenario that the OP is pulling our leg, there are 1481 other people reading this topic. Chances are there are a few in there that may not be doing too well either.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
ayseven
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 489
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:17 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by ayseven »

I would urge you to seek the help you think you might need in an appropriate place. Wanting to give up is normal. There are millions of people thinking the same thing as you, but expounding on an aviation employment site will most certainly not advance your career, and may well preclude it completely. Please seek help with your qualified health professionals.

As a former health professional myself, who found every single step difficult, in both my professions (aviation and health) I would say that if the targets are continually being missed, put the weapon down, and go up and readjust the target. You would be surprised how well you can do after that!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tuza
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:56 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by Tuza »

I admire very few people.
I admire this story.
[/quote]

Thanks bud! :)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tuza
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:56 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by Tuza »

I admire you. That's a lot of grit. You go girl!
[/quote]

Thanks!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tuza
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:56 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by Tuza »

You Tuzla WILL be a success!
Good luck to you and the others in this thread.
[/quote]

Thanks! You too!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tuza
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:56 am

Re: Has anybody given up?

Post by Tuza »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:34 pm I would agree.

First - Tuza, your story is truly inspiring. I honestly don't think I would have accomplished half what you did, were I in your shoes.

Second - newlygrounded... please keep in mind that putting your training on hold does not mean giving up entirely. Tuza's story is a testament to that. You can always come back and finish later. Please don't give up on the dream.

Thanks! And agreed @newlygrounded - just keep going. :arrow: :o
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Flight Training”