Has anybody given up?

[Tuza]

I, too, admire your tenacity, but I can’t help wondering what the frig is so difficult about flying a little airplane that it takes 300 pages to write it all down.

I'm a mom of 3. If you don't prepare and plan, they will EAT you ALIVE.

Also, like to be more prepared than not. Like bringing a winter kit...may not need it...but I want everything in it.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Also, like to be more prepared than not. Like bringing a winter kit...may not need it...but I want everything in it.

You should see my winter auto kit. It has everything right down to a plumbing torch to work stuck lug nuts loose.

[Tuza]

Also, like to be more prepared than not. Like bringing a winter kit...may not need it...but I want everything in it.

You should see my winter auto kit. It has everything right down to a plumbing torch to work stuck lug nuts loose.

THAT is impressive!!!

[Kejidog]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

I am calling this post a troll. Nobody started any Career, or job for that matter, at the very top. And to expect anything like your so called “dream” to materialize is a joke.
It’s called life and yes it’s hard. You have to work and suck stuff up. The time you apparently spent on your so called training shows to me your commitment to working hard, in my opinion. How many flight hours do you actually have?

Maybe ask around to anyone over 50 who is successful what they did in their 20’s and 30’s and i bet it will be similar to what you describe as being the “ once you’re in” scenario. Jobs are fleeting and unsecure at any time like you describe as now. And i will assure you, they stared at the entry level and worked their asses off, i bet. and if you see them as successful and achieving their goals it is, I guarantee you because of hard work and dedication. Not luck or being “given” something. What i did during my 20’s to get to where i am today was a result of hard work dedication and the application of learning and self improvement. I am just a lowly PPL so you can take my advise for what it is worth. But remember this even doctors need to intern and work 12 hour days for no pay. Let that sink in.


I usually don’t feed trolls but i am seeing this whole sense of entitlement being displayed by the younger generation more and more in not just work situations but in day to day interactions with younger people more and more. As if coming to work to give service is doing me some sort of favour; or thinking that because they are here now they deserve to be a CEO or whatever. I have to work constantly to correct my kids when they display this behaviour but i fear they will be well amongst the minority.


I can’t believe anyone seriously thinks this way or expects to be at a major airline in a couple of years and taking two or more to accomplish a ppl.

[dash8driver]

I would stay stick with it if you enjoy it. If not, it’s a bit of a waist of time, especially when you could be pursuing other things in life you truly enjoy more.

P.S. I am ignoring the comment above. The purpose of this thread is not to argue who has it worse between younger and older generations. But provide guidance.

[Kejidog]

I don’t think anyone me included is saying older people had it worse or better. I am injecting a large dose or reality to this original poster. To think that one can decide to get a job at the pinnacle of a career by attending few ppl lessons is delusional.

Even with the way it was last year nobody has ever gone from a ppl at a ftu to right seat at a even regional in two years without attending a flight college.

It’s called reality. And feeling like you want to be a pilot does not make you one. And minimal effort is a half assed excuse at “trying”

[newlygrounded]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

I am calling this post a troll. Nobody started any Career, or job for that matter, at the very top. And to expect anything like your so called “dream” to materialize is a joke.
It’s called life and yes it’s hard. You have to work and suck stuff up. The time you apparently spent on your so called training shows to me your commitment to working hard, in my opinion. How many flight hours do you actually have?

Maybe ask around to anyone over 50 who is successful what they did in their 20’s and 30’s and i bet it will be similar to what you describe as being the “ once you’re in” scenario. Jobs are fleeting and unsecure at any time like you describe as now. And i will assure you, they stared at the entry level and worked their asses off, i bet. and if you see them as successful and achieving their goals it is, I guarantee you because of hard work and dedication. Not luck or being “given” something. What i did during my 20’s to get to where i am today was a result of hard work dedication and the application of learning and self improvement. I am just a lowly PPL so you can take my advise for what it is worth. But remember this even doctors need to intern and work 12 hour days for no pay. Let that sink in.


I usually don’t feed trolls but i am seeing this whole sense of entitlement being displayed by the younger generation more and more in not just work situations but in day to day interactions with younger people more and more. As if coming to work to give service is doing me some sort of favour; or thinking that because they are here now they deserve to be a CEO or whatever. I have to work constantly to correct my kids when they display this behaviour but i fear they will be well amongst the minority.


I can’t believe anyone seriously thinks this way or expects to be at a major airline in a couple of years and taking two or more to accomplish a ppl.

You're probably the same guy who bought his house for 1/5th of the prices now then get mad when young people complain about rent.

Things are a lot harder for younger people now. Nobody is expecting to be CEO or fly 4 days a month in 5 years, but The cost of university houses and a PPL are basically 4 or more times higher than they were 20 years ago with salaries being the same or lower in real word dollars.

[Kejidog]

You're probably the same guy who bought his house for 1/5th of the prices now then get mad when young people complain about rent.



Yeah buddy i did while making 1/3 the wages that the same people are paid today. Ever hear of inflation? As i said before. It’s called life. Grow a set. And no, you or your situation is special or harder. If anything you have it way easier. Interest rates in the double digits? Yeah i have seen it and lived it. Every generation goes through hardships. We just did our best. But hey keep feeling sorry for yourself. Maybe you’re entitled to some compensation for your hardship. And i am done feeding trolls

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

You're probably the same guy who bought his house for 1/5th of the prices now then get mad when young people complain about rent.



Yeah buddy i did while making 1/3 the wages that the same people are paid today. Ever hear of inflation? As i said before. It’s called life. Grow a set. And no, you or your situation is special or harder. If anything you have it way easier. Interest rates in the double digits? Yeah i have seen it and lived it. Every generation goes through hardships. We just did our best. But hey keep feeling sorry for yourself. Maybe you’re entitled to some compensation for your hardship. And i am done feeding trolls

I'm sorry, I usually stay out of these discussions, but this is simply untrue. It is hurtful, and insulting to people starting out today. Real wages, adjusted for inflation, have barely budged in 40 years. In that time the cost of a house has tripled (give or take... I may be exaggerating here but the point remains valid). Millenials are the first generation in living memory to earn less than their parents. (And for the record, no, I am not a millenial, so don't go there)

https://financialpost.com/personal-fina ... -inflation
https://globalnews.ca/news/3531614/aver ... -stagnant/
(I can find more citations, but for now two of them from opposite ends of the political spectrum is enough)

And here's the evidence, from the Bank Of Canada, comparing the cost of a house to real wages:
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2015/08/lon ... se-prices/

As a percentage of average income, the cost of the average house in Canada has gone up 50% since 1995 alone.

Get your head out of the sand. It really is harder to enter the housing market today.

[rookiepilot]

You're probably the same guy who bought his house for 1/5th of the prices now then get mad when young people complain about rent.



Yeah buddy i did while making 1/3 the wages that the same people are paid today. Ever hear of inflation? As i said before. It’s called life. Grow a set. And no, you or your situation is special or harder. If anything you have it way easier. Interest rates in the double digits? Yeah i have seen it and lived it. Every generation goes through hardships. We just did our best. But hey keep feeling sorry for yourself. Maybe you’re entitled to some compensation for your hardship. And i am done feeding trolls

I'm sorry, I usually stay out of these discussions, but this is simply untrue. It is hurtful, and insulting to people starting out today. Real wages, adjusted for inflation, have barely budged in 40 years. In that time the cost of a house has tripled (give or take... I may be exaggerating here but the point remains valid). Millenials are the first generation in living memory to earn less than their parents. (And for the record, no, I am not a millenial, so don't go there)

https://financialpost.com/personal-fina ... -inflation
https://globalnews.ca/news/3531614/aver ... -stagnant/
(I can find more citations, but for now two of them from opposite ends of the political spectrum is enough)

And here's the evidence, from the Bank Of Canada, comparing the cost of a house to real wages:
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2015/08/lon ... se-prices/

As a percentage of average income, the cost of the average house in Canada has gone up 50% since 1995 alone.

Get your head out of the sand. It really is harder to enter the housing market today.

This is all very true.

However it doesn't change the choices on whether to play or not.

One doesn't HAVE to own a house, nor own one in a large city.

One doesn't have to drop tens of thousands on flight training.

Neither were remotely an option for me, until well into my 30's.

Live smaller, simpler, cheaper, happier.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

This is also all very true. I'm just using home ownership as a proxy for everything else, and I admit that is a weak argument.

I myself have decided to become a pilot in midlife, and that basically means giving up on home ownership for the foreseeable future.

But here's some more food for thought - if we factor in gas alone, I'll bet the cost of flight training compared to wages has also doubled in the last 20 years. I haven't looked it up though.

I feel it's still relevant to the thread because despite all of the aforementioned, I have not given up.

[newlygrounded]

You're probably the same guy who bought his house for 1/5th of the prices now then get mad when young people complain about rent.



Yeah buddy i did while making 1/3 the wages that the same people are paid today. Ever hear of inflation? As i said before. It’s called life. Grow a set. And no, you or your situation is special or harder. If anything you have it way easier. Interest rates in the double digits? Yeah i have seen it and lived it. Every generation goes through hardships. We just did our best. But hey keep feeling sorry for yourself. Maybe you’re entitled to some compensation for your hardship. And i am done feeding trolls

I'm sorry, I usually stay out of these discussions, but this is simply untrue. It is hurtful, and insulting to people starting out today. Real wages, adjusted for inflation, have barely budged in 40 years. In that time the cost of a house has tripled (give or take... I may be exaggerating here but the point remains valid). Millenials are the first generation in living memory to earn less than their parents. (And for the record, no, I am not a millenial, so don't go there)

https://financialpost.com/personal-fina ... -inflation
https://globalnews.ca/news/3531614/aver ... -stagnant/
(I can find more citations, but for now two of them from opposite ends of the political spectrum is enough)

And here's the evidence, from the Bank Of Canada, comparing the cost of a house to real wages:
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2015/08/lon ... se-prices/

As a percentage of average income, the cost of the average house in Canada has gone up 50% since 1995 alone.

Get your head out of the sand. It really is harder to enter the housing market today.

This is all very true.

However it doesn't change the choices on whether to play or not.

One doesn't HAVE to own a house, nor own one in a large city.

One doesn't have to drop tens of thousands on flight training.

Neither were remotely an option for me, until well into my 30's.

Live smaller, simpler, cheaper, happier.

Have you seen the cities most airlines have bases in? They're not at all affordable to buy into or have insane seniority. At least 20 years ago if you started at AC you'd have a retirement pension that was guaranteed, now the only retirement most people can count on is selling their house. If you're joining the workforce recently you have neither option. Flight training prices are way higher now too and only going up.

It's not unusual for houses to have a 6 figure increases in a month lately

You're probably the same guy who bought his house for 1/5th of the prices now then get mad when young people complain about rent.



Yeah buddy i did while making 1/3 the wages that the same people are paid today. Ever hear of inflation? As i said before. It’s called life. Grow a set. And no, you or your situation is special or harder. If anything you have it way easier. Interest rates in the double digits? Yeah i have seen it and lived it. Every generation goes through hardships. We just did our best. But hey keep feeling sorry for yourself. Maybe you’re entitled to some compensation for your hardship. And i am done feeding trolls

If anyone you disagree with is a troll in your mind you're going to have an incredibly hard time seeing others circumstances.

[Beefitarian]

I went to wing night and ordered WAY too many wings.

After a few hours, had to give up.

[777Aviate]

Sorry if I'm hijacking. How long would it take for someone to get all their licenses and ratings while working 9-5 M-F and flying on the weekend?

[ayseven]

In the 80's it took 2 years working minimum wage (for a small airline, of course - wages never were very good), paying my parents rent, and flying on weekends. I thought that was a long time then.
Can I interject though about the "young vs old" thing? In the early 80's. Some of us could not get work in McDonalds, WITH our CPL, so yes, times change, and things are hard now for sure, but it is very difficult to compare. It was always hopeless to buy a house in a big city. So I moved... I sense the OP wants a bit of "security" or certainty in the path to glory, and everlasting bliss. There isn't any in aviation, and not really in anything else either. Attitude. I wish I knew that in my 20's...

[rookiepilot]

For someone who has made a post about depression you don't seem to be very good at standing in someone else's shoes. You don't know the sacrifices people make to do the things they do. A small river will carve out a huge valley given enough time.

Are you A) making fun of depression?
Or B ) are depressed yourself?

If it's really B) I suspect the reasons might run deeper than the status of flight training.

If it's A) we have nothing more to discuss.

He's got a valid point though.

"Talk about depression, reach out... except if I find the reason not serious enough, then shut up".

If you start comparing the shit life has thrown at you as a benchmark to decide whether or not someone has the right to call himself depressed or burned out, you're destroying everything you've tried to build up in other threads.

Deleted

[Squaretail]

I went to wing night and ordered WAY too many wings.

After a few hours, had to give up.

I’m disappointed in you. That story usually ends on how they refused to continue service and escorted you out.

[newlygrounded]

In the 80's it took 2 years working minimum wage (for a small airline, of course - wages never were very good), paying my parents rent, and flying on weekends. I thought that was a long time then.
Can I interject though about the "young vs old" thing? In the early 80's. Some of us could not get work in McDonalds, WITH our CPL, so yes, times change, and things are hard now for sure, but it is very difficult to compare. It was always hopeless to buy a house in a big city. So I moved... I sense the OP wants a bit of "security" or certainty in the path to glory, and everlasting bliss. There isn't any in aviation, and not really in anything else either. Attitude. I wish I knew that in my 20's...

I looked at a few other threads here and one titled (I'm paraphrasing) Non aviation employers don't value flying jobs. And it seems it's still the case a CPL is basically a boat anchor when trying to apply for jobs. I'm not looking for security in aviation (I know that's a pipe dream)

I don't want anything here to be old vs young but if someone is going to argue that I may as well point out senior pilots (generally) tend to pull the rug from under juniors when it comes to voting.

Are you A) making fun of depression?
Or B ) are depressed yourself?

If it's really B) I suspect the reasons might run deeper than the status of flight training.

If it's A) we have nothing more to discuss.

He's got a valid point though.

"Talk about depression, reach out... except if I find the reason not serious enough, then shut up".

If you start comparing the shit life has thrown at you as a benchmark to decide whether or not someone has the right to call himself depressed or burned out, you're destroying everything you've tried to build up in other threads.

Is it still the consensus on this thread the OP is seriously, medically burnt out and depressed?

Asking for a friend.

I'm not depressed or medically burnt out, but at this point I no longer enjoy flying or the idea of it (if I was to ever get my license)

The only reasons I made this post are to find out if

1. Is my experience common? (Falling out of love during training)
2. Is my outlook accurate? (are WAWCON getting worse? Are there no low level jobs for the next 5-6 years?)
3. How many CPL's never get a flying job?

[rookiepilot]

Deleted

[newlygrounded]

First world problems.
Sorry.
In the scheme of the suffering of 2020.....

You're really coming off as too faced when you make all these posts about the importance of acknowledging depression and then you turn around and become the Gate keeper.

If you specifically don't have a response for my questions above I'd rather you not reply.