1. Is my experience common? (Falling out of love during training)
2. Is my outlook accurate? (are WAWCON getting worse? Are there no low level jobs for the next 5-6 years?)
3. How many CPL's never get a flying job?
I can only offer you my opinion based on my own experience but...
What you will want to keep in mind is that some pilots are incredibly jaded and negative (as you undoubtedly noticed) but not everyone is. Quite often that translates to where they end up, but not always.
To answer your questions based on my own opinion:
1. Yes. Often very few who start ever finish. Ask your instructor.
2. Everything is cyclical, sometimes things improve and sometimes they decline and this may be industry wide or on a per company basis.
3. Lots. Again as stated by other people, attitude is a huge driving factor. Your qualifications may get you to the interview, but most times your attitude is what gets you past it.
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm
A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.
Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.
Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.
I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.
I am calling this post a troll. Nobody started any Career, or job for that matter, at the very top. And to expect anything like your so called “dream” to materialize is a joke.
It’s called life and yes it’s hard. You have to work and suck stuff up. The time you apparently spent on your so called training shows to me your commitment to working hard, in my opinion. How many flight hours do you actually have?
Maybe ask around to anyone over 50 who is successful what they did in their 20’s and 30’s and i bet it will be similar to what you describe as being the “ once you’re in” scenario. Jobs are fleeting and unsecure at any time like you describe as now. And i will assure you, they stared at the entry level and worked their asses off, i bet. and if you see them as successful and achieving their goals it is, I guarantee you because of hard work and dedication. Not luck or being “given” something. What i did during my 20’s to get to where i am today was a result of hard work dedication and the application of learning and self improvement. I am just a lowly PPL so you can take my advise for what it is worth. But remember this even doctors need to intern and work 12 hour days for no pay. Let that sink in.
I usually don’t feed trolls but i am seeing this whole sense of entitlement being displayed by the younger generation more and more in not just work situations but in day to day interactions with younger people more and more. As if coming to work to give service is doing me some sort of favour; or thinking that because they are here now they deserve to be a CEO or whatever. I have to work constantly to correct my kids when they display this behaviour but i fear they will be well amongst the minority.
I can’t believe anyone seriously thinks this way or expects to be at a major airline in a couple of years and taking two or more to accomplish a ppl.
Firmly in this poster's camp re the OP.
I also don't appreciate having clinical depression essentially mocked on this thread.
Get lost, OP, suck it up, do what you have to do. Or don't.
Do you call everyone you dislike a troll? (Really shitty thing to tell people what they are and aren't allowed to feel down about!) Nobody is mocking depression. Everyone has lost something this year, some more than others, so an issue you consider "small" issues may have a lot bigger impact than it would during calmer times.
So I'd highly appreciate it if you don't belittle my feelings.
4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight!
After four years of flying as much as you could how many hours do you have?
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Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight!
After four years of flying as much as you could how many hours do you have?
I was paying off loans for the first while so only the last 2 have been flying! And about 80
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm
A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.
Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.
Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.
I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.
You know, I started my PPL in 2007. Worked the ramp to pay for it. Got pregnant in 08' and at 5 months pregs, I finished it. I almost didn't but was pushed (and I'm glad). It took a year and a bit because I paid out of pocket. Fast forward 5 years, 3 kids later, I come back in 2015 for my CPL. Finish it all (requirements minus the 200nm) all within a few months (student loans lol) and yes, I owned a house and worked a full time job as well as helping my two oldest in school, and then everything that could go wrong did and I never finished that stupid thing until 2017 with build-up complete in 2018. Then divorce (also a pilot lol), 2 moves and 3 schools and here I am in 2019 to start the Instructor rating. (I had already finished 3/4 the IFR including having already passed the INRAT and IATRA and still full time working) and Haze came from the BC forest fires (in 2018 summer). So disgruntled, left to join the reserves. I won't get into details, but came back to aviation (because I am a sucker) and in 2019 prepared to do the class 4. The class 1 I was with didn't work out and the old class 1 whose school I trained at, couldn't take me until May 2020.
So, in a new city, newly married as of May 2020 ironically, still only just 3 kids, lots of money via student loans and lots of time...but here I am only 3/4 of the gs finished, over 300 pages of lesson plans complete backed up 3x on multiple hardrives, and no flying for the rating done yet.
I almost spit out my coffee reading your post because it is so funny and I was finding myself getting lazy (already finished the Sharper edge written exam book and was playing more video games as of late) and realized life was giving me a strong sign!
Don't give up. Regular jobs suck. I've had many and in many varying careers. Tenacity is key. The best 3 instructors I had were in order; disciplined, fun, and the 3rd no matter what happened to her, never gave up. They're all captains at 705s. Some got their ppl after I did. But who cares. If you love it do it! And as a mom of 3, I LOVE taking my kids up. That's their norm. That makes me happy. But also I'm stubborn. Probs should have gotten into boxing. Would have ended much sooner.
Good luck!
A++++ keep on keeping on, very inspiring. Happy landings
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:57 pm
I have an extremely hard time mustering sympathy for this entitlement bullsh--t over "not enjoying flying anymore" -- in the context of the horrible year this has been for countless people I know.
To the OP: How about quitting flying and giving some money to charity?
Start with the food banks that are in dire need. Shelters. The list is endless.
How about thinking of folks who have problems much bigger than yours.
The selfishness out there blows my mind.
Did you not see where I kindly asked you not to reply? Nobody is asking for sympathy. I wanted input from other people who were in the same boat. If you actually cared about depression you might ask about the other things in my life that I've gone through this year. Now get off your high horse and bother someone else.
Never give up, friend, I would say at least try at the career and then you say you will give up. I was very frustrated when COVID came, but later on, a senior instructor of mine encouraged me by telling me many stories of his former students. What I found was that each pilot gets his own career opportunities, and it would be hard for everyone.
I knew a guy who worked at a local air charter for a while and he quitted when the industry got down for covid. He is doing his own food delivery business now and still insist on private flying. I hope you will find your ways and good luck.
mike132.7 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:09 pm
Never give up, friend, I would say at least try at the career and then you say you will give up. I was very frustrated when COVID came, but later on, a senior instructor of mine encouraged me by telling me many stories of his former students. What I found was that each pilot gets his own career opportunities, and it would be hard for everyone.
I knew a guy who worked at a local air charter for a while and he quitted when the industry got down for covid. He is doing his own food delivery business now and still insist on private flying. I hope you will find your ways and good luck.
Thanks for the story! guess everyone has to pivot a bit right now
mike132.7 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:09 pm
Never give up, friend, I would say at least try at the career and then you say you will give up. I was very frustrated when COVID came, but later on, a senior instructor of mine encouraged me by telling me many stories of his former students. What I found was that each pilot gets his own career opportunities, and it would be hard for everyone.
I knew a guy who worked at a local air charter for a while and he quitted when the industry got down for covid. He is doing his own food delivery business now and still insist on private flying. I hope you will find your ways and good luck.
Thanks for the story! guess everyone has to pivot a bit right now
Yes, np, I thought about given up too, but the only reason made me insist was that I want to see by myself about what will happen after the training. Maybe there would be some good, who knows. I hope you will do well in your future.
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:57 pm
I have an extremely hard time mustering sympathy for this entitlement bullsh--t over "not enjoying flying anymore" -- in the context of the horrible year this has been for countless people I know.
To the OP: How about quitting flying and giving some money to charity?
Start with the food banks that are in dire need. Shelters. The list is endless.
How about thinking of folks who have problems much bigger than yours.
The selfishness out there blows my mind.
It has to be said: for someone who has posted regularly and extensively on here about your own personal and professional problems and the impact they've had on you, you're showing an astonishing lack of empathy for the OP who has done pretty much the same thing. People manage stress and life issues in different ways, and with varying levels of success. What appears like a trivial problem to you may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back for somebody else, and conversely, issues that you find challenging may be absolutely no problem for the OP to manage.
Might be a good idea to cut back on the tone-deaf responses and display a bit of humility
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:57 pm
I have an extremely hard time mustering sympathy for this entitlement bullsh--t over "not enjoying flying anymore" -- in the context of the horrible year this has been for countless people I know.
To the OP: How about quitting flying and giving some money to charity?
Start with the food banks that are in dire need. Shelters. The list is endless.
How about thinking of folks who have problems much bigger than yours.
The selfishness out there blows my mind.
It has to be said: for someone who has posted extensively on here about your own personal and professional problems and the impact they've had on your mental health, you're showing a pretty breathtaking lack of empathy for the OP, who is doing exactly the same thing you're criticizing him for.
People manage stress and life issues with different techniques and with varying levels of success. What appears like a trivial problem to you may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back for somebody else, and conversely, some of the issues that you have discussed may be absolutely no problem for others, including potentially the OP, to manage.
Just a friendly suggestion, but you might consider cutting back on the tone-deaf rants and show some generosity. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and all that.
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Last edited by YYZSaabGuy on Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:57 pm
I have an extremely hard time mustering sympathy for this entitlement bullsh--t over "not enjoying flying anymore" -- in the context of the horrible year this has been for countless people I know.
To the OP: How about quitting flying and giving some money to charity?
Start with the food banks that are in dire need. Shelters. The list is endless.
How about thinking of folks who have problems much bigger than yours.
The selfishness out there blows my mind.
It has to be said: for someone who has posted regularly and extensively on here about your own personal and professional problems and the impact they've had on you, you're showing an astonishing lack of empathy for the OP who has done pretty much the same thing.
Might be a good idea to cut back on the tone-deaf responses and display a bit of humility
Edited.
Don't mock mental Health.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:57 pm
I have an extremely hard time mustering sympathy for this entitlement bullsh--t over "not enjoying flying anymore" -- in the context of the horrible year this has been for countless people I know.
To the OP: How about quitting flying and giving some money to charity?
Start with the food banks that are in dire need. Shelters. The list is endless.
How about thinking of folks who have problems much bigger than yours.
The selfishness out there blows my mind.
It has to be said: for someone who has posted regularly and extensively on here about your own personal and professional problems and the impact they've had on you, you're showing an astonishing lack of empathy for the OP who has done pretty much the same thing.
Might be a good idea to cut back on the tone-deaf responses and display a bit of humility
Why don't you stay out of it instead of posting -- twice?
My experience is nothing like this post.
It's an insult to anyone who's dealt with serious, life changing trauma.
Shut up YYZ.
I took my post down to edit it. It's back up. If you read it, you might actually learn something.
And regardless: munch me, you pompous little twat.
YYZSaabGuy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:32 pm
It has to be said: for someone who has posted regularly and extensively on here about your own personal and professional problems and the impact they've had on you, you're showing an astonishing lack of empathy for the OP who has done pretty much the same thing.
Might be a good idea to cut back on the tone-deaf responses and display a bit of humility
Why don't you stay out of it instead of posting -- twice?
My experience is nothing like this post.
It's an insult to anyone who's dealt with serious, life changing trauma.
Shut up YYZ.
I took my post down to edit it. It's back up. If you read it, you might actually learn something.
And regardless: munch me, you pompous little twat.
Edited.
Don't mock mental health.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
