Ground Thumper wrote:You could try acrobatics in a glider. A number of clubs have acrobatic programs. Just a thought.
Actualy that is a great thought Ground Thumper! A lot of guys who fly acro count on HP to get them through the manouvers. Flying a glider in acro would be a great way to learn energy management and flying the "wing" as I like to think of it. Height is energy and your wings ability to create lift dictates what you can do with your plane regarding airspeed. I know a lot of acro guys will jump in and say I am an idiot but what the heck. My plane has a great power to weight ratio but the wing sucks when it comes to low speed lift, hence it is not competative for acro and has very little drag. If you can master acro with a glider you will have no problem with powered aircraft.
P.S.... I don't hold a glider licence allthough I have had three [succesfull] engine failures to date. Should I ask the MOT for a glider rating?
AEROBAT wrote:...P.S.... I don't hold a glider licence allthough I have had three [succesfull] engine failures to date. Should I ask the MOT for a glider rating?
That depends. During these engine failures - did you crank it around and start thermaling whenever you felt a wing lift?
But seriously, glider aerobatics is awesome. There is no better way to learn energy management. StepOnTheBall mentioned 'Southern Ontario' in the opening post. If you're around the GTA / Golden Horseshoe, try SOSA. They have an aerobatic intro flight that's available to the general public. If you like it, get yourself a club membership for the season, bang off a glider license (the conversion is pretty easy for most licensed power pilots) and then do some acro training.
The SOSA Gliding Club is a not for profit gliding club in Rockton Ontario which offers free glider aerobatic instruction to it's members. The club has been running a structured aerobatic programs in Canada since 1999 and at the time of this writing has 4 licensed glider aerobatic instructors.
We mostly operate on weekend mornings through the spring, summer and fall.
www.sosaglidingclub.com has a section dedicated to the glider aerobatics program. The set curriculum can be adapted to achieve your specific goals from unusual attitudes, to basic manoeuvres and competition.
I know most people are looking for power aerobatics, however the high cost and low demand for an aerobatic flight school has made it difficult for businesses to maintain such a program.
I personally started flying glider aerobatics and transitioned to power shortly after. I now fly several different types of aerobatic airplanes and gliders.
Extras, Pitts, Gliders, heck someone even said a P-51!!!
No one in ON has a Citabria or something, maybe you should head West to BC or South to the States, finding someone to teach you the ropes in a Super D or a Citabria should not be this difficult.
I agree, it is sad that no one has a Citabria or Decathlon for aerobatic training in Southern Ontario. The reality is, it is hard to make money, or even break even with this business proposition. I suspect most that have tried loved it, and would have kept it going if it didn't cost them money.
The syndicate I belong to had the Decathlon used by Air Combat Canada for a couple of years but ended up coming out even or loosing money depending how you look at it.
Assuming you were trying to make a living at this, you could charge $300/hour and still come out with very little money at the end of the year. Actually I think you would make similar money working at McDonalds except more risk and a smile on your face driving to work.
This is the reason I believe the not-for-proffit approach works for us. Everyone does it because they like it, and we don't worry about what might happen if no students show up.
Last I checked Jerry Younger is still teaching in his Pitts in Waterloo I forget his rate but I remember it being quite reasonable, and OAC in Ottawa teaches on a Grob 115.
The options are limited by they are out there. Good luck!
Harv's (in Manitoba) is a great place to go for Citabria/Pitts aerobatic training.
At CYSH (southwest Ottawa) I do some tailwheel training on the Maule - usually for new tailwheel homebuilt owners - and type familiarisation on the two-seat Pitts (generally to new single-seat Pitts owners). It's not really my main gig, but I hate to see people wreck their new airplanes during a landing gone bad, or kill themselves with improper unusual attitude recovery.
I also do type ratings on the L39's, but like the 421, Beech 18, Harvard, Stearman, Ryan, Cornell, Citabria, R22 etc they aren't set up as part of an FTU with an OC so these aircraft aren't available for external flight training for the public - we just do in-house initial and recurrent pilot training.
I do some tailwheel training on the Maule - usually for new tailwheel homebuilt owners - and type familiarisation on the two-seat Pitts (generally to new single-seat Pitts owners). It's not really my main gig, but I hate to see people wreck their new airplanes during a landing gone bad, or kill themselves with improper unusual attitude recovery.
There are plenty of people who don't think I should offer the above training, but let's see what the FAA administrator at Oshkosh had to say on this subject yesterday, on the 28 July 2010:
FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt said at EAA AirVenture on Wednesday that the homebuilt community needs to do a better job of preventing accidents. "Last year, amateur-built aircraft accounted for 25 percent of all general aviation accidents," he said. "But the troubling number here is that they represent only 10 percent of GA aircraft. We're trying to change that trend." Many accidents seem to happen in the transition time after a new owner buys an aircraft from the original builder, Babbitt said, and he would like to see an effort to ensure that new owners get thoroughly trained in the performance and characteristics of the aircraft.
So even though there might be powerful opposition to me providing exactly this sort of flight training, it would appear to be a serious enough safety issue that the FAA administrator felt the need to publicly speak out on it.
Hm. Which prevails in Canada - safety or political agenda?
Hedley, what kind of opposition do you face? What are the reasons?
Also, do you think you'll be available for a couple of flights in August. University starts in September, so it's now or never ("never" means next summer )
cgzro mentionned a P-51 in Ottawa (but no dual). Does anyone know a place where it's possible to do a dual flight in such a machine (or any other great warbird from WW2)?
I recently had a student tell me that he was afraid to get dual from me, because he was told that if my name was in his logbook (as his class one instructor) Transport would reject his private pilot licence application.
I am not making this up.
Yes - we will do a couple flights in August! My apologies, my day job has been frantically busy lately, which can really get in the way of the flying.
I've rented a TF-51 (think two-seat P-51D) down in Kissimmee, FL:
I'm glad I flew it - marvellously fast and noisy - but frankly it wasn't that much fun. What surprised me is how easy it is to fly. Think of a C185 with a NLF wing.
AFAIK there is no place whatsoever like that in Canada - it's not hard to figure out why - but I might be wrong.
Trampbike, I took 5 hours of training on a 8KCAB Decathlon near Boston. It was mostly unusual attitude recoveries, but also some basic aerobatic maneuvers and a few touch-and-go's. I had a blast!
Considering it's just a 5 hour drive and the cost is $265/h (aircraft + instructor) I think it's a very good option.
I heard about a school in Ottawa, but didn't have a chance to check them out yet. Would love to continue training though if I could find something in QC or ON...
I guess this is sort of related: I'm bashing around the idea of starting a warbird adventure flight business.
My dilemma right now is to figure out how to survey the market to determine viability so I can put a business plan together. (I'm a pilot, the cash is gonna have to come from the bank)
My Dad flew one of the Harvards for a company that started up an air combat experience. The location was terrible and limited the market. Didn't stay in business long. (in fact, he was never paid dime one). He had to take an aerobatics course before he could perform at airshows and he did that at Al Pietch's in Minot, ND, I believe. I think Dad was almost 70 at the time.
I've owned a flying business in the past, but not this type. I don't need to be told about operating costs, etc., but I will need to find out what, if any, restrictions might apply regarding the type of aircraft I can register commercially, etc.
There are several places in the USA that fly the T-6 (Harvard) doing what you describe. I have seen them at St Augustine, FL and Kissimmee, FL and Geneseo, NY.
My suggestion would be to look up these people. Go for a flight with them. See what they offer, and what they charge. Look closely at their equipment. Be honest and tell them what you want to do - you're not competition for them, in Canada.
I can't think of another type other than the AT-6/Harvard/SNJ that would be appropriate to this kind of operation. A radial engine is good - it delivers the old time sound, and the R-1340 is a pretty good radial. The T-28 would be cool, but the costs would eat you alive. Not many V-12 WWII fighters have two seats, and the ones that do (eg TF-51 Cavalier) cost the earth per hour.
Probably the cheapest way to do this would be with a Nanchang or yak-52 but neither of those aircraft have a standard category certificate of airworthiness so if you try to put them on a 70x OC, no dice.
It might not be quite what you're looking for, but either of a PT-17 Stearman or UPF-7 Waco (perhaps with the smaller, more economical 220hp Continental radial) is a great open-cockpit sight-seeing machine. Especially the Waco - you can put two people in the front seat with a single seat belt and double your revenue per flight. The Stearman and Waco are not hairy-chested Mustangs or Sea Furys, but gosh they do a nice job at taking people up. The problem, of course, is that in Canada your season is so short, compared to Florida or California or Texas, etc.
The Harvard's OK to fly, but the cost of purchase and maintenance is prohibitive (for me anyway). We replaced 2 cylinders on 1340's this summer at over 2G a pop.
My choice would be the Nanchang, at half the cost of a decent Stearman, but I'm disappointed to hear that it can't go on the OC. (Damn, should have bought that Stearman back in '76 for 14K) Better yet, Dad passed on a P-51 in MB in the mid-60's for five hundred bucks.
The only certified aircraft that fits the "warbird" bill is the Harvard. The downside is they are so expensive to run that I do not see many takers for what you would have to charge.....
Another 2 years later... Same question. I've got 8.9hrs from OAS in Ottawa but have moved to the Barrie area and would be willing to go north or south to find training.
There's a great new flight school in Collingwood, ON that now offers dual aerobatic instruction and the 10hr rating/course! That's right guys (and obviously girls), I actually found a place on my own!
Eagle Flight Services, based out of CNY3 in Collingwood, ON, has an A-150 Aerobat and a seasoned instructor for training. I have been renting from them for the last 4 months (a C-172) and have nothing but good to say about them! Especially since they now offer the Aerobatic Course. I have recently begun to finish my Aerobatic Rating and I will note that the Aerobat is actually surprisingly good at performing basic aerobatics. Snap rolls are a BLAST!
If your interested just search up Eagle Flight Services in google or eaglefs.ca.
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