PA31-350 Ground School

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x15
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PA31-350 Ground School

Post by x15 »

Good afternoon Folks.

I am in the final stages of completing my own power point ground school for the Piper chieftain; which I will gladly distribute to anyone that wants it once I am done.

I used the POH and a SIMCOM manual to write the ground school for myself in an effort to learn as much as I could about the machine before I start flying it full-time (currently an FO on a B200) . I have found that trying to teach others allows me to learn the material really well.

In addition the info in the manuals I hung out at work while the AME's did inspections to a couple of the machines. I asked a lot of questions (sorry guys) and took numerous pics to explain what I learned.

That being said I find the powerpoint is very.... Academic. I was looking for a more operational feel to it. Something that teaches the initial HO drivers about the systems but also about the nuances of the airplane. How to operate it and why? For example stage cooling. Its in there. Along with a reason why and photographic evidence of what happens when you dont stage cool. But I was hoping for more of this sorta thing.

So any of you old guys out there that have lots of time in the straight HO or Chieftain let me know what you learned from flying the machine. I am looking for stories about emergencies and what can kill you to... "hey did you know this little thing about this thingy over here" sorta thing.


Thanks In advance

X15
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Bede
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by Bede »

Great job. Trying to teach stuff to others is the best way to learn it yourself.

Every PA31 driver will forget to switch from OB to IB. Mine happened between Holman and Sachs Harbour over the Beaufort with a load of gov't folks. Sure did a lot of BSing to explain that one to the freaked out pax.
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by FlaplessDork »

Bede wrote:Every PA31 driver will forget to switch from OB to IB. Mine happened between Holman and Sachs Harbour over the Beaufort with a load of gov't folks. Sure did a lot of BSing to explain that one to the freaked out pax.
+1
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by x15 »

Yeah I can see how losing track of time could result in forgetting to switch from OB to IB. When that happened how long did you have from the time the Fuel Annunciator came on? If you see the light do you have time to switch before it surges?
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by Bede »

Sorry, it's been 10 years since I last flew the 'ho. Is there a fuel annunciator? I used to just look at fuel flow, and once the needle would flicker, I'd switch. If I recall correctly, there used to be 1hr 48 min of fuel in the OB tanks. This was accurate to within about +/- 30 sec or so.

A really good reference is the maintenance manual. Look through the troubleshooting section. Figure out why each potential problem causes the symptoms it does. You will figure out the turbo system really well.
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into the blue
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by into the blue »

Good job, x-15! I really like your attitude. I use a similar method for learning in-depth about every new airplane that I fly, before strapping myself to the seat for the first time. Hey, it works! The only difference is that I don't use PowerPoint; instead, I create a separate binder with all the information that I gathered from different sources, my own schematics, memo aids, notes, etc. all organized neatly in a logical pattern. It's just great to climb into the airplane for the first check-out flight and realize that you KNOW the machine from inside out.

I've never flown Navajo, but here's are some additional sources for you that I can suggest:
- Service Manual, like Bede said. A big +1 on that.
- Engine Operator's Manual. The more complex the engine, the more importnant it becomes to study this text.
- Accident reports for type (TSB, NTSB). Try to find patterns of common pilot mistakes and technical/design deficiencies that contributed to accidents on your particular type.

Good luck.
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PunkStarStudios
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by PunkStarStudios »

I currently fly a PA31-325CR (IFR/PIC) for work... so I can share a few things...

1)
Don't put the gear down until you're below 130 kts. You may find the gear sequence doesn't complete and the doors stay open... causing you to drag your butt home real slow. Going into the big airports is all about managing power/speed/mp/gear/etc (ok - duh). If you're doing a fast descent to the runway, and you have not already got a touch of flaps out or the gear, and your speed is 150kts or more - you're going to have a hell of a time not breaking something.

2)
Probably typical for other planes too... but if your AP acts wonky.. like pitches down just before it pitches up (with a pitch up command), or sometimes doesn't level off when commanded to after a pitch command - no big deal - it can be tweaked over a 30-60 minute test flight with a good avionics guy. Cheapest maintenance bill you'll ever see.

3)
Don't forget to reconnect those damn front gear scissors!!! You may tax out ok until you do a right hand turn (taxi)... things will start to shimmy if you're lucky, If you're not - you'll take off and might have a problem retracting gear or worse yet... landing with a wheel 45 degrees off.

4)
A think black crack forming on the cowl... is probably an oil leak and not an actual crack. ;-)

5)
If you are running geared engines (like the P-Navajo), think twice before going into places like YYZ. Those engines need to step down 1" MP per minute. Other's can do 5" per minute.

6)
Probably a typical piper... but that nose wants to slam down as soon as the main wheels touch. Gatta learn to hold it off or you're going to go through front tires.

7)
And if you find yourself going through front tires - you probably still have the original 2 piece front tire rim. Get rid of it and get the single/solid front tire rim instead.

8)
Only Navajo's with boots between the cowl and the fuselage are "FIKI".... but let's face it - any Navajo can plow through all kinds of crap just find - much better than some of the Cessna twins. (Sorry Cessna - I still love you)

All I can think of for now.
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tperry
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by tperry »

A few things I can think of that I've experienced in the 310 and 350:

1) In the 350 on a hot day, pull the low pressure boost pump CBs when starting. Otherwise it will be very easy to overprime or even flood the engines.

2) On that same note, the engines succumb very easy to vapour lock and you will hear some engine surging during start-up and taxi. Simply turn on the emergency fuel pumps.

3) During the pre-flight inspection (especially after inspections) carefully inspect the exhaust manifolds. They are segmented and I've found them not resealed correctly before, which of course has a potential for an engine fire.

4) Make your final descent to the field by increasing the drag (gear, flaps) rather than reducing large amounts of power after stage cooling.

5) Higher than normal EGT, normal fuel pressure and high fuel flow in CLIMB, and Lower than normal EGT in CRUISE = suspect a clogged injector.
- EGT is high in the climb because of the leaner (clogged) cylinder. EGT will be lower in cruise because you won't be able to lean it very much without the engine running rough. The EGT probe takes a reading from all 6 cylinders, so the remaining 5 cylinders will be richer than normal. Think of fuel pressure and fuel flow gauges being the same thing, just calibrated differently. The fuel pressure gauge will read normal because it's upstream of the fuel servo, but the fuel flow gauge which is downstream will read high because of the backed up line from the clogged injector.

6) Make SURE the wing lockers, nose baggage, fuel and oil caps caps are secure. I know this is a no-brainer, but it's happened enough times to me and others to warrant a second quick last minute walk around while the pax are boarding to make sure. The air stair door latch is also notorious for coming up in flight if not secured properly. WATCH THIS ONE!

7) Don't panic when you see a glowing exhaust pipe through the cowling vent at night :lol:
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by x15 »

Thanks for the comments thus far guys!!!
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by PunkStarStudios »

Ahhh yes... it took a while for me to get the knack of starting those engines - especially hot starts. The sure fire method of starting (hot or cold) I promise you is not in the books.

NORMAL/COLD START
Master Switch ENSURE ON
Throttle OPEN 1/2 circle
Prop Controls FORWARD
Boost Fuel Pump ON
Emergency Fuel Pump ON
Mixture RICH
Fuel Flow Indicated WAIT FOR
Throttle BACK to 1/4 circle
Magneto Switches ON
Prop CLEAR
Starter ENGAGE
Mixture RICH ON START
OIl Pressure CHECK
Emergency Fuel Pump OFF
OIl Pressure CHECK

HOT START
Master Switch ENSURE ON
Magneto Switches ON
Boost Fuel Pump OFF
Emergency Fuel Pumps OFF
Throttle OPEN FULL
Prop Controls FORWARD
Mixture IDLE CUTOFF
Prop CLEAR
Starter ENGAGE
Mixture RICH ON START (slow)
Throttle RETARD QUICKLY
Boost Fuel Pump ON
OIl Pressure CHECK


Sometimes if it's more like a warm start (been sitting an hour) I hit the emergency pumps for a second while spinning the starter.

The last poster was dead on about the glowing exhaust ;-) and how easy it is to get vapor lock. First time I had vapor lock I almost canceled the flight - until my palm slapped against my forehead. It can can several minutes to work it's way out so be patient. Hot humid day + hot start = occasional vapor lock.

Twice now I've had the pilot door unlatch in flight. I know you're supposed to pull the locking mechanism so it's not locked in flight but I've had more times where the door opening has caused chaos, and less times (none) where the locked door hampered my exit after a crash.

For example - had to divert to Ottawa yesterday due to thunder storms... coming in on the loc bc 25. I was watching the lightening hit the field and rain slam into the windshield (yes I was the last to get in - Jazz and AC behind me went missed - they're smarter than I) when all of a sudden there's a big whooshing air sound. Sure enough - that door's latch gave way. Wind held the door shut (last time it happened it popped the window open 3 inches and held it there so go figure). The absolute worst time for a distraction. 9 times out of ten I'll lock that door in flight - only lately have I been following the placard and unlocking it... guess it was time for another breach.
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by foxkilo »

Hi X-15....

My boss is tinkering with the idea of getting us a PA31-350. Just one more hurdle with the money folks and he'll start sending the mechanic around to look a planes.... Oh yeah, he has to teach the guy who's gonna fly it (aka me) about it..... You're very generous offer may help me get a head start. How can I get a copy...?

Thanks in advance...Regards from the lower 48...

FAK
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by x15 »

Hello Folks.

I finished the ground school. It is far from perfect. But its a work in progress.

I don't mind sharing it. PM me if you would like a copy.

X15
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by x15 »

Hey Folks.

Here is the chieftain ground school I have been working on. I would ask those of you that choose to use it to let me know where it could be improved.

All the best

x15


http://www.4shared.com/document/MKpKrgk ... chool.html
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by PunkStarStudios »

First off - great slides. VERY complete. Are you an AME or a Pilot? ;-) Tons of great stuff in there.

I've got a few notes for you...

Page 7 you mention Certified for flight into known icing (FIKI). This honestly is a gray area for me - so perhaps some other Navajo drivers can chime in. My understanding is that the FIKI certification changed after the Navajo received it's certification. The ones with inboard boots were able to maintain FIKI certification while the other ones did not (I believe there was an AD). Additionally - all Navajos are only certified to go into light or moderate icing and not severe. On a side note - I've driven through a ton of ice - these machines are work horses and can take much more ice than some competing planes - I only bring this up for clarification in your GS.

Page 9 you mention access to the Janitrol heater is through the nose section (along with other things). It's a bit misleading. The battery is accessible through the nose cargo door but not the other things. Janitrol is via an access panel on the other side and brake fluid via a small hatch on top.

Page 24 you note friction lock but it's not shown on the supplied image.

Somewhere around 92 I'd mention that the emergency boost pumps should only be turned off one at a time, after ensuring no anomalies after shutting off the first pump.
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by Bushav8er »

Nice job! I only found minor spelling/typos.
all Navajos are only certified to go into light or moderate icing and not severe.
No (general) aircraft is approved for severe icing, if I recall correctly.
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by into the blue »

You are correct, Bushav8er.
from TC AIM MET 2.4
Severe icing: the rate of accumulation is such that de-icing or anti-icing equipment fails to reduce or control the hazard. Immediate diversion is necessary.
By definition, even the best system on the market is not able to cope with SEV ICG, ever. Therefore, certification is not possible.
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by The Old Fogducker »

X-15:

Although I just gave it a rather quick look, I really have to compliment you on an excellent job of putting that material together, and showing the spunk and initiative to take on a project like this.

Further, offering it to the great unwashed public to use in their training programs is a truly great thing to do that will increase the standard of training substantially.

Regrettably, too many 703 operators are still offerring "stick with protruding nail" style training from the dark ages of aviation in the form of .... "here kid ... read the book, your ride is set up for the day after tomorrow ... first thing in the morning before we fly the morning charter that departs wheels in the well at 0700, we'll fly tonight when the 'plane gets back at 11, and the stupid Ops Manual says we have to give you five hours of initial training, ....any decent pilot with a licence should be able to figure things out and be fully ready for a ride and do it in only 2 hours absolute max, but those government jerks don't have a clue .... so we'll need to stop for fuel half way through the training .... I don't like to break up the flow of the training with that fuel stop around 0300, but what are ya gonna do? "

A hearty well done on your project to date.

Regards,
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by PunkStarStudios »

In fact - no aircraft at all is certified for severe - but the airliners know they slice through it pretty quickly so they kinda ignore it... or so I am told.
Bushav8er wrote:Nice job! I only found minor spelling/typos.
all Navajos are only certified to go into light or moderate icing and not severe.
No (general) aircraft is approved for severe icing, if I recall correctly.
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by x15 »

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will make the changes regarding icing and fix the typos.

I am going to continue to expand on the content as I learn more about the machine through flying it. Ill add more operational ideas as they occur.

Thank you all for helping!

Cheers

x15
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Re: PA31-350 Ground School

Post by mukluk »

I would very much like a copy of your PA-31 groundschool when you are finished. I fly King Air as an F.O, but I am interested in flying the Navajo aswell. Thank you very much for your time and effort. Cheers
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