Walk around

[767]

Put everything away first. Enjoy yourself, dont make it harder. No need to carry the fuel cup, dip stick, tie down ropes with you as you do the walk around. Saw someone spill fuel on their arms today and it probably got soaked in their sleeves. Completely unneccesary. Thanks for listening.

[Beefitarian]

Wat...

[YYZSaabGuy]

Put everything away first. Enjoy yourself, dont make it harder. No need to carry the fuel cup, dip stick, tie down ropes with you as you do the walk around.

Actually, that makes sense - good point.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The walk around as taught at the typical FTU. Look at everything, understand nothing

[Shiny Side Up]

Not sure what there is to understand. Check the fluids are enough for the flight, make sure nothing looks bent or broken. Some people aren't very efficient doing their walk arounds which is a different matter, but that's usually one of their personal issues which they probably haven't figured out up to this point and you aren't going to be able to get through to them now. I do often wonder if someone can't figure out how to do the walk around efficiently, how on earth they hold down a job of any sort, but that's really outside the realm of flight training. Never assume that the logical order to do an activity in will be apparent to everyone.

[Big Pistons Forever]

My point is that the walk around is often treated as a series of tasks all of which are assigned the same level of importance. So for example I watch a guy spend the same amount of time looking for dents in the leading edge of the wings, including running his hand down the whole length of the wing , as he does looking at the brakes. I gotta ask where are you more likely going to find a fault effecting the aircrafts safe operation ? What are the bits that actually break and what specifically are we looking for ?

One of my biggest pet peeves is that at the CPL level everyone is still doing the full meal deal 10 min walk around for every flight. Here is a news flash: when he/she gets their first job their boss is going to expect them to be able to do a walk around that is appropriate to the situation. This will range from the full meal deal to a quick 360 check of caps on, doors closed and nothin hanging and nothin dripping. Do the FTU full meal deal on quick turn and the boss will yell at you for wasting time and money. keep doing it and he will fire your ass. Where is that taught at the FTU ?

[Grantmac]

BPF:
You forgot wiggle stuff.

[767]

Not sure what there is to understand. Check the fluids are enough for the flight, make sure nothing looks bent or broken. Some people aren't very efficient doing their walk arounds which is a different matter, but that's usually one of their personal issues which they probably haven't figured out up to this point and you aren't going to be able to get through to them now.

I would also like to add to that list. Be gentle with the control surfaces when moving them. Don't try to act like you want to remove them from the aircraft.

One of my biggest pet peeves is that at the CPL level everyone is still doing the full meal deal 10 min walk around for every flight.

Well I don't know if I want to encourage someone to rush with the walk around. But if it's the first flight of the day, I would suggest arrive a little early instead of ariving last minute and rushing with everything. On subsequent flights, shorten the walk around, unless the situation changes of course.

[Shiny Side Up]

One of my biggest pet peeves is that at the CPL level everyone is still doing the full meal deal 10 min walk around for every flight.

Like I said, some people have no sense of logic or efficiency. If it makes you happy, When I was last interviewing new hires, there was one fellow who insisted that a safe walk around could not be completed without the use of a checklist. Needless to say he didn't get hired. I make frequent use of the phrase to CPL students "If you were working for me you'd be fired for that." Some learn, some don't. PPL students (if they're not intending to later become CPL ones) I usually don't care how about the do the walk around as long as they can tell me the stuff I want to know at the end. Not worth worrying about in the big scheme of things.

[Colonel Sanders]

This may be flight training heresy, but ....

Not all preflights are created equal. I do very different preflights for:

1) an aircraft that hasn't flown in 11 months, sitting outside, or
2) an aircraft that has just come out of (heavy) maintenance, or
3) an aircraft's first flight of the day, or
4) an aircraft that landed 10 minutes ago.

(4) is obviously the minimum, and consists of:

a) gas quantity (how many hours?) and caps
b) oil level sufficient
c) external: flight control locks/plugs/covers/chocks/tiedowns

I can do the above very, very quickly.

(1) and (2) are more like annual inspections. Flat tires?
Oleos? Battery dead? Bird's nests? Controls rigged
backwards?

I will be attacked for mentioning this, but an aircraft
that has just come out of maintenance is the most
dangerous and unreliable of all. You are the maintenance
test pilot. Stuff might be missing, tools are left in places
to jam the controls, stuff might be loose, etc.

Around 25 years ago I picked up the Maule from a very
reputable A.M.O. that had just completed the expensive
annual inspection.

First thing I noticed was that I couldn't move the elevator
all the way back. The very reputable A.M.O. had installed
a new central vacuum filter that conveniently hung down
and blocked the control column from moving back. Smooth
move. I got a screwdriver, unbolted the clamp and rotated
the filter up out of the way. Elementary maintenance? You
tell me.

Flew the aircraft home. Sounded funny. Pulled the cowls.

The exhaust had been removed by the very reputable A.M.O.
and welded, which was ok. But they did not use a jig, which
was not ok, because the exhaust twisted and they couldn't
fit it back on. One riser had both studs bolted on, but the
other two risers only had one stud bolted - the other exhaust
stud for the other two cylinders didn't line up any more, so
they just put it on anyways.

Smooth move, very reputable A.M.O.

It was then that I learned that I had to do my own maintenance,
if I wanted work that was of any quality at all, regardless of
whatever pretty Transport paperwork came with the shoddy
work.

Sometime, I will tell you about my experiences with avionics
shops. It would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

[Big Pistons Forever]

BPF:
You forgot wiggle stuff.

Well if you just landed and the controls "wiggled" OK in flight I pretty sure they are going to wiggle just fine on the walk around. BTW most pilots especially new ones have no idea what constitutes a "good" wiggle from a "OH OH not good" wiggle.

A huge plus one on what CS said about aircraft out of maintenance. One of the top "significant emotional events" of my flying career was doing a maintenance test flight on a T 28 Trojan. The elevator trim was rigged backwards and I did not catch it on the preflight

A normal takeoff is done with the elevator trim set to zero. After takeoff you start trimming nose down as the aircraft accelerates. Things happen pretty fast when you drop the hammer on 1425 HP so I started trimming and all of a sudden I need two hands on the stick to keep the nose from rising. Fortunately I remember a great piece of advice form a very wise old aviator. When the airplane starts to do something weird and you don't know why; undo your last action. When I rolled the trim back to zero life started to get better, still it was not a good day for me.....

[fleet16b]

Some very valid comments in this thread.
Just as important is a very good post flight walk around
A very good habit to get into and it may just save your ass or the next guy who flies the aircraft

[Magnetron]

How about checking fuel right after filling up?
Example, you've done a cross country and you get gas from point B FBO and you're going back to point A. Is there a point of checking the fuel for contamination then if you're leaving right away?
Some people do this, and I don't understand why. If there's anything in the fuel from point B FBO, it would take time to get to the bottom where the drains are, no?

Also...I am currently working ramp at YTS. Our procedures tell us we have to do a post landing and pre-departure walk around for every turn. Is this normal practice for other ramps out there?

[Colonel Sanders]

How about checking fuel right after filling up?

Well, you want to confirm that the correct amount of fuel
was loaded, and that the caps were put back on correctly.

Flying a twin cessna, many times I have had the tanks
"filled" but in fact they were not, and had to call the ramp
guy back and top them off again. IIRC Cessna put out
a SB on this exact topic quite some time ago.

As far as fuel contamination, yeah, I've gotten a load of
bad fuel from an FBO and it took quite a while to get all
the water out of it.

[FenderManDan]

In my opinion FTU has the policy and written walk around check list that is good to have in your hands the first few times when are you doing a external A/C checks. After that the students usually perform the works without the supervision.

The list should be used to learn about the A/C and what it really means. Once you figure it out even the whole "FTU works with the fuel jar" should be easy and not take more than 5-6 min.

The one thing that I found helpful is to hang around the AME when the airplanes are naked. I had a plenty of opportunity to do that due to the weather cancellations last winter. Helps with the other preflight checks lists as well.

After refuelling, I had experienced a few times a bit of water in the fuel (Winter time), that escaped after a few repeated drain tests.


The only thing that I am not sure is on the flight test, does examiner shadow you on the walk around?

[Big Pistons Forever]

It is important to note that there is no point in sampling the fuel right after you have filled up. Drain the tank first to get rid off any accumulated crud and water then fuel it up. If there is already existing contaminants they will get stirred up and go into suspension and it can take up 20 minutes for the water to settle out. If you have any doubts about the fuel going into the plane sample it before you put it in the tank.

[Shiny Side Up]

(4) is obviously the minimum, and consists of:

a) gas quantity (how many hours?) and caps
b) oil level sufficient
c) external: flight control locks/plugs/covers/chocks/tiedowns

This should be a little longer though for a rental airplane. In particular I reccomend a quick sweep of the inside just to make sure you don't find any fun suprises like full bags that someone left behind, and other loose stuff that often gets left in the cabin. Especially if you know they had passengers. Look for flat spots on the tires and never assume that the previous renter measured their fuel and oil correctly. Readjust the seat if necessary.

[notpaying]

BPF:
You forgot wiggle stuff.

Well if you just landed and the controls "wiggled" OK in flight I pretty sure they are going to wiggle just fine on the walk around. BTW most pilots especially new ones have no idea what constitutes a "good" wiggle from a "OH OH not good" wiggle.

What's the difference between a good wiggle and a bad wiggle? Blame the new pilots (I'm part of them) all you want, I however, have no shame in saying that I've never been shown or even told what a bad wiggle is, so please with all due respect enlighten me. All I can recognize is if it's different from what I'm normally used to.

[Beefitarian]

Pertaining to ailerons and elevator.

Good wiggle.
Smooth motion, nice and quiet, full deflection.

Bad wiggles include but are not limited to.
Friction, scraping, only moves a couple of inches, moves significantly less in one direction compared to the other, makes funny sounds (screeching, groaning, claws scampering, clicking, clunking, clanging, scratching) a part or entire control surface comes off or seems like it might.

[Trematode]

It's one thing to abbreviate your inspection if the plane just got down, and you were the one flying it last.

It's another thing entirely to do so when the last person flying was a random renter or student pilot. I've seen people walk away from aircraft after their flight with bent wings, mangled or missing tail tie-down hooks, and cracked control surfaces -- and either out of ignorance or embarassment they don't tell anybody.

You guys talk about how things are done on the line at a commercial operation, but you can't ignore the fact that your CPL students are currently doing their training in an FTU environment! Frankly, if the student can spend an extra 10 or 15 minutes performing a good thorough inspection, they are only displaying good decision making skills given their environment and I think it's a bit worrying that you guys would chide them, or make fun of the practice.

Seems to same to me as back tracking for the threshold on a long runway. Sure, you've taken off of shorter runways than the distance remaining, but that extra 1000' could be the difference between life or death if you have an engine failure just after take off. Taking the time just increases your safety margins.

Save the line flying for the line. Approach any rental aircraft with a generous amount of distrust, I say.