Expired IFR Question

[totalflyer]

Hi there,

I am just wondering if someone can help me with my question.
I went in 2007 and got my Group I IFR out at Perimeter. It has expired and I did not renew it.

To get it back I know that I have to go write the INRAT again and that I will have to do the flight test.
My question is do I have to go through the full IFR training again or because I have the requirements (IFR x-country etc) do I just have to get myself ready (SIM/Flying) for the flight test plus the INRAT?

I have asked the guy at the desk of the flight school I plan on doing it but he had no clue.

If someone could help it would be appreciated. I might have an opportunity possibly coming up that requires Group I.

Totalflyer

[jamesel]

You are good to just brush up on what you need to pass the exams. The experience you have gained does not have a time limit. Off the top of my head, this applies to any endorsement & licence.

Is the guy at the desk the IFR instructor ? If so, you might wanna look into changing schools......

[totalflyer]

Is the guy at the desk the IFR instructor ? If so, you might wanna look into changing schools......

No it's just the dispatcher at the desk... it's hard to get the actual instructor.
Thanks for your help.

Much appreciated.

Totalflyer

[Colonel Sanders]

Tiny detail: for both your written and flight tests this
time 'round, they are both initial tests, just like
the first time you did it. Accordingly, TC will require
the same instructor recommends for the tests as you
needed the first time.

I have had the joy of this experience - renewing
instrument rating from scratch - twice now
in my lifetime.

Thank Christ the instrument rating on my FAA ATP
is good for life - it doesn't do the coy disappearing
act like the TC ATPL, where if you let your group 1
instrument rating lapse, they revoke your ATPL and
issue you a CPL - even if you maintain a group 2 or
3 instrument rating.

To get it back, you have to first renew your group 1
instrument rating (possibly with an initial written test
and initial flight test) and then you have to argue with
TC to try to get your ATPL back. I am told some people
have had to rewrite the SARON and SAMRA again to get
their TC ATPL back again.

Of course, if you don't renew your instructor rating, TC
doesn't notice that your group 1 instrument rating has
expired and they don't revoke your ATPL - you just need
to get your group 1 instrument rating back again, and
you don't need to rewrite the SARON and SAMRA, which
is your reward for letting your instructor rating lapse.

Complete and utter madness.

Have I told you how much I am looking forward to my
TC licence booklet expiring in 2014?

[trey kule]

Ah CS, you and I share the same experiences, but as I do not have an instructor rating they have not pulled my ATPL....yet...and I have used my ATPL to obtain license conversions in other countries..They just chuckle at the expiry...Not sure why they should pull your ATPL if your rating expires..That just does not make sense.
Canada is the only country I have come across that has this pesky rule...A few years ago I tried to convince them that they should renew my IF rating based on a foreign license...I had to get a certified copy of the foreign flight test for evaluation....I gave up.. I was going to try it again this year with a different foreign license as apparently they have suddenly realized that if you are flying IFR daily you probably are safe enough, but the process really did not change.
The good news I am told, is you can do your initial-renewal in the sim now..It used to be you had to do it in a plane...Still 1500 bucks for a referesher seminar and a sim ride to demonstrate to TC that I can safely do what I do pretty much every day.
I suppose someone at TC will confidently say that they are preventing non current IFR pilots from blasting into the skies....you have to wonder how pretty much every other country in the world manages it.

[GTAFI]

What does the Instructor Rating have to do with an Instrument Rating and an ATPL? I don't get it. What am I missing here?

[Colonel Sanders]

It helps if you don't have frontal lobes. I will try
to explain.

If you have an ATPL with a group 1 IFR, and it
expires, and you don't cause TC to look at your
licence, they don't revoke your ATPL.

However, if you renew a group 3 IFR (eg PC-12
or Caravan or TBM) or renew your instructor rating,
TC looks at your ATPL and says, "Hey! No Group
1 IFR! Time to revoke this ATPL" and re-issues it
with a CPL.

Down the road, when you renew your group 1 IFR, it's
time to argue with TC to get your revoked ATPL
back. You may or may not have to re-write the
SARON or SAMRA depending upon whom you
end up talking to.

I do not know why TC feels the need to revoke
an ATPL, but that's just the way it is.

[Panama Jack]

Speaking of which, whatever happened to the "No-Expiry" IFR Rating which was the subject of a few posts here on AvCanada a few years ago and which seemed to infuriate designated examiners here, who predicted aluminum rain (as well the death of a cash cow)?

[trey kule]

Cash cow killed by aluminum rain......It almost writes itself...

I have been told that one can renew an expired IF rating in a red bird sim, even if it is considered an initial due to the time. Anyone confirm that is correct?

[Doc]

I might be out of date on this one...but if it hasn't lapsed for two years you don't not need to rewrite????

You can renew on a SINGLE ENGINE airplane every second year to avoid having to rewrite. The FCU probably wont encourage this because they WANT YOUR MONEY! Last time I looked, Caravans and PC12's were SINGLE ENGINE AIRCRAFT?? Forget the MEIFR...it's a money grab! Unless you NEED one...which most of you don't.

[harrybro]

If you have an ATPL with a group 1 IFR, and it
expires, and you don't cause TC to look at your
licence, they don't revoke your ATPL.

[rapid602]

Just an FYI to throw in here. I used to have an ATPL. I let my licence lapse for 15 years. I was not employed at all in aviation. I wanted to get my Intrument Rating back. I went and got my medical done, applied and got the Aviation Document Booklet and it came with my ATPL Licence in it, however I had an expired intsrument rating in it ( Printed in the document). I went and wrote the Inrat Exam (passed). Then in the fall I went to Perimenter in Winnipeg as thats where I first did my Intial Rating years earlier. I had two weeks off from work and drove to Winnipeg form Southern Ontario. I ran out of time as I had to come back to work so I finished it it Kitchener. I wote a PSTAR, and did a flight test. It was assumed the flight test would be equivilant to an intial. I did a cross country flight plan, W & B, and a departure and on route.. etc. Passed the Flight test, Got the Multi IFR Sticker for my document book. I never applied for any other IFR other than Multi. I never applied for a single or centerline thrust IFR. I had no issuses except I had to write a PSTAR to act as PIC for the flight test to cover the 5 year PIC rule. Hope this helps someone in the same situation.

Fly Safe

[rapid602]

Because it was condsidered an intial and not technically a renewal I was told it had to be in an aircraft. Although I had the time and previuosly held the Multi Instr. Rating, TC did not even want to see my log books. TC was very easy to deal with through the whole process.

[ross1]

hello Rapid........your circumstances are almost exactly the same as mine....thanks for the info.

Ross

[TC Aviator]

Hey Folks,

If you have held an Instrument Rating in the past, it is always a renewal, not an initial.

CAR 421.49 - Renewal of Instrument Rating is applicable.

The standard is at this link: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_49

Cheers.

[robshelle]

So does that mean a renewal for a 20 year expired MIFR can be done in a Redbird, such as always being advertised on this site?