ATPL Application process tips

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ThatArmyGuy
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#51 Post by ThatArmyGuy » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:35 pm

Oxi wrote:
Outlaw58 wrote:
Chaxterium wrote:Yes; provided that it was logged in the pursuit of a higher licence. As an example your dual time from your PPL and CPL days is good, but dual time logged while getting checked out at the local flying club is not.
Ref please

If it's in your log book, it counts toward your total time doesn't it?

JP
Yes it counts towards your total time.

+1
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ThatArmyGuy
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#52 Post by ThatArmyGuy » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:39 pm

Here's the latest processing times that I experienced for Prairie and Northern Region.

- Applied at 1548 hrs (all sub-requirements well exceeded except TT as you can see).

- Application sent from Northern Alberta 5 Oct 15 direct to Winnipeg Office (express with tracking)
- Application received 7 Oct 15
- Cheque cashed 9 Oct 15
- Date of Issue on sticker 2 Nov 15
- Sticker received in Northern Alberta today, 12 Nov 15.
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Viper32
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#53 Post by Viper32 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:26 am

Went through Toronto Transport Canada Office for ATPL application process
I called the office and asked to speak to appropriate person for any questions i had regarding the application
I sent it off on a monday, by monday week i had logbook back in the mail and Wednesday ATPL sticker arrived in the mail.
Overall dealings with Toronto Transport Canada for anything has been alot more efficient than Prairies Region Office.
This is basing on the fact i now live in Ontario, but used to live Manitoba dealt alot with Prairies Region Office also.

A few things i has to verify were the validity of ATPL exams since i had a type rating on DHC8, which response was (the exams remain valid as long as your type rating on two crew required machine eg: DHC8 remains valid and since my last IFR ride was done in a Level C sim it was also acceptable).
Another point was logging co-pilot time on a BE20 and counting it towards the overall required time since its now 1 - 1 rather than 50%, the response was (you can only count that time if the operator you are flying for requires that two crew be flown on that aircraft type for the flights you are doing, since BE20 is a single pilot aircraft).

Luckily enough the company i flew for did require two crew to be flown on the BE20 for charter and medevac operations. They requested you have a letter stating that from chief pilot or operations manager of the company included in the application.

Overall just follow the guidelines on the application form and as mentioned above call transport canada and ask to speak to someone who deals with atpl aeroplane applications and fire off the questions, it definitely helped.

Good luck to all
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#54 Post by Deadlift » Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:24 pm

Ok so I applied for my ATPL back in the spring. I met all the requirements, however I was one day over the date of my last IFR flight test and my application was denied because of that. I was told by the inspector must complete a ride before January 2016 or my exams expire even though I have done a PPC in the previous 24 months which I thought locked the exams in for life? Also with the new IPC rules do I still even need to complete an IFR ride within the last 12 months in order to meet the application requirements? I'm trying to determine this before I go and book a ride in an aircraft (our company only uses sims) and shell out a bunch of dough if I don't have to. Anyone have any insight regarding these changes?

TIA
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#55 Post by Sky_Conqueror » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:31 pm

Greetings all. Sorry If I may sound a bit ignorant in regards to this subject. Now I know TC has changed a dump-load of regulations in recent months. I finally decided to look step by step into the few logbooks I have. I had a question in regards to the process in general.

I've unfortunately jumped from place to place. So my logbook includes a variety of experience ranging from contracts, aircraft rentals and various operators. The issue is that some of the places either don't exist anymore / changed ownership etc. And some flights I have done recently at a certain school doesn't seem to keep track of the plane rentals. Do you guys see where I'm heading?

Yes...the infamous word = certified hours...or certified logbook. As quoted in the previous paragraph, some of this certification will be close to impossible to certify.

What are the processes that TC goes through to validate logbook? Do they call all these places? Do I have to myself board a TIMEMACHINE and track down all these and force some of those flightschools to certify hours?

Great help would be needed. Thanks!
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#56 Post by IgnitionArmed » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:50 am

Deadlift wrote:Ok so I applied for my ATPL back in the spring. I met all the requirements, however I was one day over the date of my last IFR flight test and my application was denied because of that. I was told by the inspector must complete a ride before January 2016 or my exams expire even though I have done a PPC in the previous 24 months which I thought locked the exams in for life? Also with the new IPC rules do I still even need to complete an IFR ride within the last 12 months in order to meet the application requirements? I'm trying to determine this before I go and book a ride in an aircraft (our company only uses sims) and shell out a bunch of dough if I don't have to. Anyone have any insight regarding these changes?

TIA

I have the same question. With IFR renewals not being a thing anymore as long as you're current, do they only want a copy of your latest ppc? They haven't changed the wording in the CARS. Also I haven't seen one of those PPC forms lately either, do they still have a "Renew IFR" bubble?
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#57 Post by JAHinYYC » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:11 am

ctmorawetz wrote:
Co-pilot vs Dual on the application form
Your times are divided into three categories on the application form: PIC, Co-pilot and PICUS (PIC under supervision). Anything that you were not PIC for, is to be listed under the Co-pilot category, whether it's dual time or co-pilot time. This only applies for your Instrument time. Your total day/night time does not require you to put in dual time, as long as you are over 1500 hours total time.
Could anyone help with a CARs reference to re-enforce the point above that Dual Night (single) counts towards the 100hrs total night?

The Winnipeg Licensing office is challenging me on this as I have 96hrs PIC night between and 7.1hrs dual. I thought I was over the 100hr threshold.

Help
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#58 Post by digits_ » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:16 am

JAHinYYC wrote:
ctmorawetz wrote:
Co-pilot vs Dual on the application form
Your times are divided into three categories on the application form: PIC, Co-pilot and PICUS (PIC under supervision). Anything that you were not PIC for, is to be listed under the Co-pilot category, whether it's dual time or co-pilot time. This only applies for your Instrument time. Your total day/night time does not require you to put in dual time, as long as you are over 1500 hours total time.
Could anyone help with a CARs reference to re-enforce the point above that Dual Night (single) counts towards the 100hrs total night?

The Winnipeg Licensing office is challenging me on this as I have 96hrs PIC night between and 7.1hrs dual. I thought I was over the 100hr threshold.

Help
It doesn't, you need 100 PIC night.

How much time was there between submitting the application and them contacting you that there was an issue ?
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#59 Post by JAHinYYC » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:20 am

digits_ wrote:
JAHinYYC wrote:
ctmorawetz wrote:
How much time was there between submitting the application and them contacting you that there was an issue ?
Seven weeks.

In on Feb 4 and I got the call last week.
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Oxi
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#60 Post by Oxi » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:13 pm

Clearly says 100 hours PIC.
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#61 Post by JAHinYYC » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:38 am

Oxi wrote:Clearly says 100 hours PIC.
To be clear it does not say that.

It says "100 hours night flight time as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot of which a minimum of 30 hours shall have been acquired in aeroplanes;"

Since I counted dual as co-pilot time elsewhere for the purposes of the total time requirement on the form I mistakenly thought that night dual counted as co-pilot.

I am wrong. I made a mistake. Release the hounds...and the hounds with bees in their mouths...
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#62 Post by SM16 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:36 am

Sky_Conqueror wrote:Greetings all. Sorry If I may sound a bit ignorant in regards to this subject. Now I know TC has changed a dump-load of regulations in recent months. I finally decided to look step by step into the few logbooks I have. I had a question in regards to the process in general.

I've unfortunately jumped from place to place. So my logbook includes a variety of experience ranging from contracts, aircraft rentals and various operators. The issue is that some of the places either don't exist anymore / changed ownership etc. And some flights I have done recently at a certain school doesn't seem to keep track of the plane rentals. Do you guys see where I'm heading?

Yes...the infamous word = certified hours...or certified logbook. As quoted in the previous paragraph, some of this certification will be close to impossible to certify.

What are the processes that TC goes through to validate logbook? Do they call all these places? Do I have to myself board a TIMEMACHINE and track down all these and force some of those flightschools to certify hours?

Great help would be needed. Thanks!
Did you get an answer?
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ATPL Foreign Conversion

#63 Post by rogeriouzz » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:13 pm

Hi Guys,

I am new here, so, i have some questions regarding ATPL License Application from TC.
I am a 787 Captain in a ME Airline, but my country do not have any 787 registered there, for this reason i am unable to add this TR on my Base License.
Canada has a well recognized license, and i would like to "Store" my license under TC umbrella, less complicated and less expensive than FAA(Now much less due FAA ATPCTP cour$e).
My actual license do not belongs to me, it belongs to the company, and when i leave the company, it is part of the termination process to return the license, and NO License Autentication Form will be issued on my behalf. So, keep in mind this info when applying to ME Companies.

Ok, after this introductory briefing, i need to say that i am aware of the process to do the conversion, already studying to SAMRA, INRAT and SARON, my intention is to perform these tests, and after approved, go to a 737 sim to do the Stand-Alone Checkride (Multi-Engine). I am starting this process very soon, and there are my questions:

1) These tests SAMRA, INRAT and SARON can be done in one region, and the process itself done in another region? (Ex: Make these tests in Vancouver, Open the process for the ATPL License in Winnipeg, and SIM at Toronto??)
2) To perform the written tests is just approach any applicable Transport Canada Centre or Authorized Examination Invigilators, during working hours, OR these tests are done at fixed dates? Do i need to schedule it in advance??
3) Regarding submit the logbooks, is it safe?? how do they return it to the applicant, or do you need to collect it after ready?
4) Do you know any 737 SIM in Canada that i can use it for this purpose?? The 787 SIM of AIR CANADA seems to be exclusively for them. Unfortunately..

Thank you guys, it is everything new for me, deal with this stuff, but i hope that someone can light my head, and help me with these questions.


Safe Skies!!
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Re: ATPL Foreign Conversion

#64 Post by JAHinYYC » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:49 am

Good morning:

To answer some of your questions:

a) You have to complete the multi engine flight test in an actual airplane. You cannot take the test in simulator. This need not be a 737 or 787 aircraft...a light piston twin aircraft rented from a flight training unit will suffice.

You will need a letter of recommendation from a qualified instructor to be eligible for admission to the test. Notwithstanding your substantial experience, I suggest an instructor would want to see you fly once and manage the flight test drills prior to sending you for the test.

b) The exams may be written in one region and the results used for an application made in a second region. As an example I live in Calgary and wrote SAMRA in the Calgary office (Prairies Region). I wrote SARON in the Vancouver office (Pacific Region) during a brief trip there.

Ultimately my application was sent to the Prairies Region office in Winnipeg for processing. I completed the form, send the fee, the letters showing my test results and logbooks to the Winnipeg office. The more stuff you include and the less they look up the better it seems.

The question of where your application will be processed is probably the more complicated one, as it seems you are not a resident of Canada. Normally your file is held in the regional office where you reside. If you don't live here, would might be able to work around this issue by using the mailing address for a friend or relative.

c) Call the test center you intend to use to ask about booking a time to write the examination. Calgary's test room is small and the computers used for the test must be booked in advance. I do not recall whether I need to book a time in Vancouver.

d) Submitting your logbooks is safe (although I would make a photocopy as back up). I sent mine in via courier and they were returned to me by Transport Canada via registered post. If you would like them couriered back to you then include an international prepaid return envelope for this purpose.

Be forewarned. Processing time is promised to be 90 days in the Prairies Region. It took them almost exactly 90 days to be processed and return things to me.

e) You must complete a multi engine instrument flight test (or pilot proficiency check if you have already passed the initial flight test) no more than one year (365 days) before the application for an ATPL is submitted.

You will need a letter of recommendation for the flight test from a qualified instructor.

The multi engine instrument flight test (or pilot proficiency check) CANNOT be completed in a flight simulator. It does not matter if it is a full motion or category D sim. The test has to be in an airplane.

A few other things to consider...

I) Do you possess a Canadian Catagory One medical? You will need one to hold the ATPL.

In my experience, one's first interface with Transport Canada begins with the medical which opens a file number which later becomes your license number. If you are already applying for license conversions perhaps you have this already, if not. I would start there.

II) You seem to be hoping to have your type rating added to your ATPL. I am not certain whether your current type rating from your current employer's home company will transfer to your Canadian license. If not, you will need to pass a PPC here to gain the endoresment. The only way to add a type rating for an advanced aircraft like this would be through a company sponsored training and PPC program...I am not sure how you will be able to work around this.

Returning to your original questions about the ATPL process....Looking at what you intend to achieve I would recommend writing and passing all the exams first and then spending a few days in Canada at a flight school.

You will need to get your Canadian license issues, write your tests, pass your multi engine flight test, get the multi rating signed off and then pass your multi engine instrument flight test to have these endorsements added to your Canadian license. Once again - you cannot do much of this in a sim. It has to be a real airplane.

Good luck.

JAHinYYC

rogeriouzz wrote: after approved, go to a 737 sim to do the Stand-Alone Checkride (Multi-Engine).

I am starting this process very soon, and there are my questions:

1) These tests SAMRA, INRAT and SARON can be done in one region, and the process itself done in another region? (Ex: Make these tests in Vancouver, Open the process for the ATPL License in Winnipeg, and SIM at Toronto??)
2) To perform the written tests is just approach any applicable Transport Canada Centre or Authorized Examination Invigilators, during working hours, OR these tests are done at fixed dates? Do i need to schedule it in advance??
3) Regarding submit the logbooks, is it safe?? how do they return it to the applicant, or do you need to collect it after ready?
4) Do you know any 737 SIM in Canada that i can use it for this purpose?? The 787 SIM of AIR CANADA seems to be exclusively for them. Unfortunately..

Thank you guys, it is everything new for me, deal with this stuff, but i hope that someone can light my head, and help me with these questions.


Safe Skies!!
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

#65 Post by complexintentions » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:49 pm

Some good info, except about adding the type rating to the license.

I too was working at a ME company. While I was there I added the B777 type rating to my Canadian ATPL. It was a paperwork exercise, I had to demonstrate I was actively flying the B777 by providing records of my last PPC and last several pages of my logbook, and paying $30 at the time. I then received the sticker with the B777 rating added. Simples.

It may depend on which ME country the poster is working in, I would assume it would have to be an ICAO member, which mine (UAE) was/is. Incidentally, the UAE GCAA does provide a license authentication letter, at no charge, and I did keep my UAE license (for what it's worth). Not all ME countries or employers are the same.

Like most Canadians I did my multi-engine rating on a light piston twin, long before I left Canada. But I find it bizarre that it isn't possible apparently to do your initial multi rating on a Level D sim...?

Anyway, to the original poster - I would get your Transport Canada medical done first, because you can do that in the ME - there are lots of Canadians in Dubai for example, who keep their TC medical current locally. (I suspect you are in DOH, so getting to DXB may be a problem these days.) If not you can always do it in Canada, there are plenty of private docs who will do one. But once that's done, just head to Canada for a week to knock off the exams, they're incredibly easy compared to other licenses (i.e. EASA). Get familiar with some ancient piston twin - painful after flying jets, but cheaper than a sim course, anyway. Do a couple hours with an instructor and the tests. Then submit your paperwork for the license along with the B787 endorsement. Done.

Pretty much any major Canadian city will be able to do the flight training and medical part, and the exam centres are all listed as well. So I'd try to do it all in one place, based on where you have may have contacts you can use as your Canadian address and of course, best accessible from an employee travel ticket!
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