Ditching Course

Luscombe · Post by **Luscombe** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:13 pm

Hey all,

I just did my Ditching Course at Survival Systems in Dartmouth Nova Scotia. I needed it to do my present job and I thought they did a wonderful job. Makes me realize that without it, I probably would have been lobster food a long time ago if I had to ditch before today.

Has anyone else had the training there? What did you think?

skywatcher · Post by **skywatcher** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:16 am

I haven't done the course yet. I was considering it, what does it consist of? How long is the course and how much does it cost?

Thnks!

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:37 pm

It might just be me, but paying to go on a ditching course seems a lot like paying a bunch of guys to gang rape/sodomize you as preparation before you go to prison.

It has been my experience that you don't need to practice being miserable, life will arrange for plenty of that for you on it's own. In the meantime, enjoy yourself, and excuse me while I go on my daily 10 mile run in the 35C heat -NOT!

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:13 pm

hz2p wrote:It might just be me, but paying to go on a ditching course seems a lot like paying a bunch of guys to gang rape/sodomize you as preparation before you go to prison.

It has been my experience that you don't need to practice being miserable, life will arrange for plenty of that for you on it's own. In the meantime, enjoy yourself, and excuse me while I go on my daily 10 mile run in the 35C heat -NOT!

I guess that would kind of depend on how much time you spend over water now wouldn't it? I know of a couple people here in Shearwater that the egress training actually did save their lives. A Sea King ditched a few years back in a high sea state, upon landing the rotor touched the water and they turtled. All 4 egressed safely and there isn't a single one of them that denied the egress training offered by Safety Systems was the reason they all lived to tell the story.

Very effective training, when I did it last summer for the Sea King, we did 14 dunks in total. We practiced with and without EBS (emergency breathing system), we exited via every exit from both the right seat and left seat. We also did off level dunks, ie not 180 degrees inverted, as well as in the dark.

All in all, it will save your live, it not only teaches you the proper way to egress the aircraft underwater, but it allows you to practice in a safe environment complete with divers in the water to help you if you need it.

We all practice forced landings/autorotations, so why not egressing an aircraft underwater if your job entails a lot of overwater flight?

Louis · Post by **Louis** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:15 pm

Found this on http://ebushpilot.com/sbriefing.htm

But I learned later in my career that what is obvious to some might not be obvious to all. A Bell 212 helicopter went down offshore in West Africa. In light rain and mist the captain flew into the sea. During the impact the blades ate into the cabin damaging one main door. The floats either ripped off or did not inflate and the helicopter turned turtle and started to sink. There were 12 passengers and two crewmembers on board.
The co-pilot died in the accident and the Captain escaped, as did three other passengers from the cabin. The pre-investigation rumour we heard was that all the survivors were white and all the passengers who died were black. That in it self started some local troubles as if white and black had anything to do with it. The local African villagers and family of the victims threatened to kill the captain and the company had to smuggle him out of the area and eventually out of the country. What the accident investigation team found, however, was revealing.
The rumour was partly true in that the Captain was white and he survived. The copilot was black and he died. And two of the three surviving passengers were white and all the passengers who died were black. But, the one anomaly was the one surviving black passenger. As they had all survived impact and the investigation showed that they had all drowned, the question remained as to why did some escape and others had not.
What they discovered, however, was that all the surviving white passengers had been through emergency egress training, in other words they had been submersed underwater in the “dunk tank” when they had worked on the North Sea, and none of the passengers who died in the accident had been through any egress training. A pattern was emerging, but the lone surviving black passenger, who had not been through the submersion egress training, still stood out as the exception. That is until he was interviewed. When asked how he managed an underwater escape out of the dark and murky interior of a submerged helicopter he simple said, “I knew the white man would be getting out, so I grabbed his leg and hung on.” The British survivor conferred that this man had almost killed them both but somehow he had managed to escape anyway.

I have to agree with Luscombe's fish food statement. Plus the rules I was taught during the water egress course apply almost as is if your car was to ever jump off a bridge.

Goodbye,

Louis

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:31 pm

hz2p wrote:It might just be me, but paying to go on a ditching course seems a lot like paying a bunch of guys to gang rape/sodomize you as preparation before you go to prison.

It has been my experience that you don't need to practice being miserable, life will arrange for plenty of that for you on it's own. In the meantime, enjoy yourself, and excuse me while I go on my daily 10 mile run in the 35C heat -NOT!

Yeah, that's why I never bother learning a single emergency proceudre in my aircraft. If my engine fails, who cares? Life will arrange itself!

Luscombe · Post by **Luscombe** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:50 am

Hey Skywatcher,

Don't know much about prices, (company paid for mine) but their website is http://www.survivalsystemsgroup.com/.

I guess this brings us back to that old discussion about whether we should be required to pay for our training eh?

If you choose to train there, I very very highly recommend the EBS training as well. Our company is buying a bunch of them for our offshore operations. I'm just doing my flightplanning for my trip today out over the cold north atlantic...I know I feel better prepared today than I did when I did my last trip.

Cheers,

Luscombe

gryphon · Post by **gryphon** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:38 am

Did it last year for the Cormorant. Great training.

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:23 am

I heard you did it less than 2 hours after eating a big meal too, just because you're crazy like that. Is this true?

gryphon · Post by **gryphon** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:11 pm

It's all true......in fact, it was only 30 minutes....AND, I didn't wear my water wings. I'm a wild and crazy guy.
Got those pictures yet, or are you drowning in the storms?

LostinRotation · Post by **LostinRotation** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:21 pm

gryphon wrote:Did it last year for the Cormorant. Great training.

I hear it's a must for the Cormorant

-=0=LIR=0=-

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:52 pm

I'm sorry, I was busy today crashing airplanes as practice for when I crash in an airplane. Did I miss anything?

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:07 pm

LostinRotation wrote:
gryphon wrote:Did it last year for the Cormorant. Great training.
I hear it's a must for the Cormorant

-=0=LIR=0=-

It's a must for all CF helo crews, as well as most offshore oil workers. I didn't know the new whipping horse was the Cormorant.

hz2p wrote:I'm sorry, I was busy today crashing airplanes as practice for when I crash in an airplane. Did I miss anything?

Yeah, your special education class. I'm going to call you a liar if you say you've never done a practice forced approach.

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:15 pm

I'm going to call you a liar if you say you've never done a practice forced approach.

Is a practice forced approach like training for date rape?

I'm afraid to ask what a "back course" approach is ... that sounds like something from prison again

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:59 pm

hz2p wrote:
I'm going to call you a liar if you say you've never done a practice forced approach.
I'm afraid to ask what a "back course" approach is ... that sounds like something from prison again

Speaking from experience?

PatDaPilot · Post by **PatDaPilot** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:18 pm

Hey I know this is kind of a change form all the hatin going back and forth on the thread right now, but what's it liked to get dunked????

Is it comparable to freefalling from 30 feet and contorting your body so your disoriented under the water? More intense? Less?

Do they use actual aircraft for it or some other sort of machine?

I've never heard about this stuff before now and I must say I'm rather curious. It sounds like it'd be a hell of a good time to me.

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:28 am

PatDaPilot wrote:Hey I know this is kind of a change form all the hatin going back and forth on the thread right now, but what's it liked to get dunked????

Is it comparable to freefalling from 30 feet and contorting your body so your disoriented under the water? More intense? Less?

Do they use actual aircraft for it or some other sort of machine?

I've never heard about this stuff before now and I must say I'm rather curious. It sounds like it'd be a hell of a good time to me.

Freefalling from 30 ft? Not quite sure I understand your analogy. If you like water, the course isn't all that bad. Just a little water up your nose. Now, if you hate water, it's a very hard course. I had one guy on my course that just lost it once we were underwater.

It's a mockup of your type of aircraft. In my case, it was set up exactly like a Sea King, ie the seating postions and emergency exits were the same as they are in the aircraft. You're strapped into the seat just like you would be in the actual aircraft, then they lower you down onto the water and roll you upside down. Once the violent motion stops, you egress as instructed, ie your exit, cross cockpit, out the back, etc. The idea behind egress training is to not get disoriented, you stay strapped in until you're ready to egress and when you are moving around, you maintain references to the aircraft, not the surface.

Luscombe · Post by **Luscombe** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:43 pm

When we did it, it was still the Sea King fuselage, however they configured the doors to a Beech King Air (the machine we fly offshore). We started off dunking straight in (not like freefalling from 30 feet), wait until the airplane filled, stayed calm, undid our seat belts and exited from the side emergency door.

The next subsequent dunks were progressively more and more difficult with the last one completely upside down.... ya a little water up the nose, but we lived.

I hope I never need to use the stuff, but being that we spend about 95% of our flying time is over the cold north atlantic, it is certainly a really good idea.

niko · Post by **niko** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:33 pm

CH124 Driver wrote:

Very effective training, when I did it last summer for the Sea King, we did 14 dunks in total. We practiced with and without EBS (emergency breathing system), we exited via every exit from both the right seat and left seat. We also did off level dunks, ie not 180 degrees inverted, as well as in the dark.

What's a EBS? Got a picture?

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:52 pm

niko wrote:
CH124 Driver wrote:

Very effective training, when I did it last summer for the Sea King, we did 14 dunks in total. We practiced with and without EBS (emergency breathing system), we exited via every exit from both the right seat and left seat. We also did off level dunks, ie not 180 degrees inverted, as well as in the dark.
What's a EBS? Got a picture?

Not off hand. It's a small air bottle, about 12-14 inches long and a little smaller in circumference than a beer bottle. Attached to it is a hose and a regulator like you'd use for scuba diving. It's supposed to give you a few minutes worth of air but you could suck it back in 30 seconds if you're really huffing on it. It's there to basically calm you down while you egress the aircraft, knowing that you've got a min or two of air vice holding your breath for that long.

Sea King pilots only have the one bottle in the slimline backpack (which also has a single man raft and some flares and such), the guys in the back have one on their vests as well as in their backpacks on their seats. That way they have a bottle with them if they're out of their seat and working in the back of the aircraft.

Ditching Course

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