How to collect 1500 hrs

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Boreas
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Boreas »

I'll have you know that over the past 2.75 decades I have owned several model and RC aircraft!

However, I'm not contesting any of the points you've made about aircraft ownership. Sure, if
you want to buy a plane, buy one that has flown a lot recently etc. The question here isn't about
what kind of plane the OP should buy, but rather how he should 'collect' 1500h so that they may
join an airline.

Yes, people that want to 'collect' 1500h ASAP are more likely to brag about the number of gold
bars on their shoulders and more likely to end up in those youtube compilations. I don't
particularly agree with the OP's approach to their potential career, but that not the question either.

They asked:
how to collect the 1500 hrs experience to join an airline???
In response to this, its my opinion that they should not buy an airplane. Instead, I would
recommend that they find and get a paying seat at a company that has a few birds, preferably
some twins, preferably pressurized, preferably turbine powered and - I know all the old timers on
here are gonna love this one - preferably EFIS equipped. My main reasons for that are:
1. Single pilot, SE piston VFR time does not weigh that much when applying for an airline job.
2. Pilots with a CPL should not be doing hundreds of hours of self-funded time building.

Rest assured, one can get lots of exposure to crosswinds while getting paid to fly a PC12 or a King
Air.
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by HiLo »

Boreas wrote:I'll have you know that over the past 2.75 decades I have owned several model and RC aircraft!

However, I'm not contesting any of the points you've made about aircraft ownership. Sure, if
you want to buy a plane, buy one that has flown a lot recently etc. The question here isn't about
what kind of plane the OP should buy, but rather how he should 'collect' 1500h so that they may
join an airline.

Yes, people that want to 'collect' 1500h ASAP are more likely to brag about the number of gold
bars on their shoulders and more likely to end up in those youtube compilations. I don't
particularly agree with the OP's approach to their potential career, but that not the question either.

They asked:
how to collect the 1500 hrs experience to join an airline???
In response to this, its my opinion that they should not buy an airplane. Instead, I would
recommend that they find and get a paying seat at a company that has a few birds, preferably
some twins, preferably pressurized, preferably turbine powered and - I know all the old timers on
here are gonna love this one - preferably EFIS equipped. My main reasons for that are:
1. Single pilot, SE piston VFR time does not weigh that much when applying for an airline job.
2. Pilots with a CPL should not be doing hundreds of hours of self-funded time building.

Rest assured, one can get lots of exposure to crosswinds while getting paid to fly a PC12 or a King
Air.
+1 on the getting paid part...
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PilotDAR
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by PilotDAR »

Sure, owning a plane and flying it around everywhere is great experience, but once
you have a CPL and if you are trying to make a career out this whole thing, get
someone to pay you for it. Not to mention that 1500h SE piston time isn't worth all
that much as far as the airlines go...

In my opinion, the best way to 'collect' +1500h, is to find a decent company up
north where you can jump in the right seat and progress through.
Negative 1.

Are the posters here who disagree with buying an economical, simple plane to fly for experience building, owners of such planes?

I am not a pilot employer, but I expect that hose who would hire pilots would be very happy to see the skills learned during 500-1000 hours of PIC in a 150 or a Champ, over 100 hours sitting right seat in something bigger, rarely touching anything, and never making the decisions about the conduct of the flight. It's not what you're flying, as much as YOU are flying, for the first 500 hours of experience building. But every bit as important, the pilot who taxiis up to the ramp in his modest but airworthy plane, having used the modest capabilities of that aircraft to find his way across the continent safely is going to win a lot more points with the pilots there - and employers - than the pilot wearing two stripes on his shoulder, getting out of right seat, having just found his way 100 miles. Those pilots of the "other" aircraft - that new pilot will NEVER manage to rent or fly without being invited, might invite new pilot for a flight, and that is where the networking and diverse learning really begins!

After a few hundred hours, the aircraft handling skills build more slowly, as the flight decision making skills continue to grow. The freedom to self dispatch, and take the aircraft as you wish, anywhere on the continent is a major skill building opportunity.

In 1987, with about 1000 hours total time, I bought the 150M I still have. The 3500 hours have flown it is about half of my total flying time. I appreciate all of that time the most. I have covered half of North America and a bit of Bahamas in it with never a scratch in it. The friends I made, and experiences I had would be an entire career in recreational flying all on it's own. But through those experiences, I have also been lucky enough to fly the other half of my total time on more than 200 other aircraft, of more than 75 types, so it's working out just to my liking.

The 150 sits more now, my flying it only about 50 hours a year, as I have a second aircraft I fly equally, but I don't expect to ever sell it.

Readers here have to make up their own minds, and of course the advice one reads on the internet must be taken with caution, but some posters here are posting their experience, from the later stages of the aviation career that the new pilot is probably working toward. Opinions and advice are one thing, but reported experience is another.....
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Colonel Sanders »

It's official, Jim - PIC time (and the lessons
learned from it) is worthless to the wanna-be
four bars crowd.

Image

Similarly, aircraft operation and ownership has
nothing to teach these youngsters, either. They
want to do this:

Image

It must be great to know everything, because
they sure don't need to learn anything, except
maybe where to purchase white shirts.
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iflyforpie
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by iflyforpie »

The added bonus is FUN!!

Let's see... go throw bags for two or three years....
Sit right seat for two or three years...
Sit left seat for one or two years (wow... I actually get to DO something!... too bad it's flying smelly drunk people for no money)
Sit BACK seat for two or three years (monkey tell capt if a light goes on)
Sit right seat for ten or more years.
Finally... sit left seat again until retirement (push buttons, read newspaper, sleep).

Then.... buy yourself a light aircraft to fly for fun and get someone to teach you how to fly it all over again.... :rolleyes:
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Shiny Side Up »

While I do think that buying your own airplane to get time on is a good idea, One should note that there are a lot of opportunities out there to get some good experience as PIC these days for fresh CPL holders. I'll say as well that those opportunities have gotten better in the last few years as well. For example, there's always ads it seems anymore for dumping jumpers and other similar jobs. Hell there's an ad right now for someone to fly a Cherokee across the country.

Personally if I was a low time guy (Someone's going to say but Shiny you are a low time guy! Just to head that off), probably without a lot of money, I'd be looking for a share of a plane. My experience has been that lots of shared planes are grossly under used, or find one that seems under used and make an offer. Hell, that's what I did. While accepting a few limitations it would be pretty hard to get a better deal for use of an airplane than I have right now.

There's more than one way to go about it if you're industrious enough.
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iflyforpie
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by iflyforpie »

I did that a lot as a low low timer (low three digits rather than the low-ish four digits I am now :D ). There were always planes sitting around, annualed, insured, and just needing a tank full of gas and someone to take it around the patch. I'd fly everywhere because for just fuel costs, it was literally cheaper than driving.
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Shiny Side Up »

I still do it lots. What's funny, is that I've done it so often that I get people around now who will sometime ask me if I'm "checked out" or "qualified" to fly their airplane, and I can open up the journey log and show them my name already in the book. Probably flies the same way it used to right? :D
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Colonel Sanders »

ask me if I'm "checked out" or "qualified" to fly their airplane
Not sure what that means, really. I will fly
anything that can be flown. And some that
probably shouldn't.

A week ago, I gave some aerobatic instruction
on a Chinese retract. Never sat in one before.
Prop rotated the other direction. Needed left
rudder, over the top of the loop. Fun. Nice airplane.

I didn't go for a two week FlightSafety course
on it though, like a four-bar King of Aviation
would. Maybe I have too much SE PIC to be
considered a "serious pilot"?
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Shiny Side Up »

It only means what you want it to mean. I end up humoring a lot of people. If they want to pay a lot of money and go through a lot of trouble to feel "safe" about something, well they're grown adults and can make their own decisions. People are funny that way, and for the most part its no skin of my back to humor them. If it is, I politely suggest someone else that can maybe help them.
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Colonel Sanders »

One of my regrets in life is that I never
got to fly the U-2. Would have been fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamnTyfkUBY


I'm sure the four-bars here would have
no problem flying it. It only has one engine,
after all. Experience flying it wouldn't be
very useful when it came to your airline
application, though.
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by HiLo »

Shiny Side Up wrote: One should note that there are a lot of opportunities out there to get some good experience as PIC these days for fresh CPL holders. I'll say as well that those opportunities have gotten better in the last few years as well. For example, there's always ads it seems anymore for dumping jumpers and other similar jobs. Hell there's an ad right now for someone to fly a Cherokee across the country.
For the OP's benefit, perhaps you should give a few details on how to get these jobs and where to find them (hint: outside of Toronto).
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Well moving out of the GTA is key. I was referencing the job ads as posted on this website. There have been increasing amounts of ads for low time pilots. One just has to get out and look for them. But then that seems to be a problem for lots of the job seekers these days. Here's a hint: Aviation is still largely controlled by older people. The old folks you see posting here are somewhat in the rarity, which means to get a flying job outside of instructing, you still got to do it the old way and show up in person. You won't do that desperately sipping your mochachino fingering your iPad down at the Starbucks.

I know a few young (and not some not so young) lads who all recently got jobs, flying a Cessna 206, a Cessna 182, and one flying a Cessna 172, who all happened to show up at the right place at the right time. Good places to start to get lots of PIC this summer. But probably not good places to wear white shirts and polish your bars, they might get dirty.
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by HiLo »

Shiny Side Up wrote: But probably not good places to wear white shirts and polish your bars, they might get dirty.
Or kicked around the establishment like the wearer's ass... :lol:
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Boreas »

I don't even know where to start...
Colonel Sanders wrote: I'm sure the four-bars here would have
no problem flying it. It only has one engine,
after all. Experience flying it wouldn't be
very useful when it came to your airline
application, though.
:lol: Again with the epaulet comments. Sounds like you might have a
little 'four-bars' envy there Col.

Everyone, the airlines and yourself including, can recognize the
difference between flying a privately owned bug-smasher around, at
one's own will, and flying a U2 for the Air Force. I'll chalk this up to
willful ignorance on your part.

On reconsidering this thread, I'd say one can fly whatever they want
for their first 1500h. That amount of experience, even if its coupled
with an ATPL won't get you to the airlines.

If you wants to go to the airlines in Canada, you'll need somewhere
around 2500h, along with some of the following: turbine time, multi
time, multi crew time, high alt. (pressurised) time, EFIS
time and experience with SOPs, MELs etc.

Whatever you do, marc s , don't pay to fly once you have a
CPL!

If you do, me and my posse will hunt your down....
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Colonel Sanders »

'four-bars' envy
(snort) uh huh. Here's some more single-engine
time that a CPL should avoid at all costs because
it won't help with the airline application:

Image

Image

What ex-military jets do you issue type
ratings on, four bars?

PS I hold two ATP's - TCA and FAA. You?
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Blakey »

Colonel Sanders wrote:One of my regrets in life is that I never
got to fly the U-2. Would have been fun.
But, given their normal cruising levels, wouldn't that require you to look down on the all the airline pilots?
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by PilotDAR »

Whatever you do, marc s , don't pay to fly once you have a
CPL!
If you do, me and my posse will hunt your down....
Huh?!? I own two airplanes. Only I ever fly either of them. I have a CPL, (though it is not required to fly either of those planes, only some other ones I fly). I have to pay the cost to fly my planes, 'cause no one else does, and why should they?

So I pay to fly after having a CPL, what's wrong with that?
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by ahramin »

I'm probably breaking these rules as well, though in my defense I was unaware of them. After getting my PPL I continued to fly it about 100 hours a year for the next several years while finishing university and looking for a flying job. When I got the first job I flew there, didn't really want to spend hours and hours on the ferry and the highway driving through winding mountain roads. Maybe the rules don't apply in BC and that's why I never heard of this? Was I supposed to sell my airplane when I got my CPL and drive everywhere? How plebian, sounds awful. In any case, none of my employers seemed to mind hiring someone who had experience owning and maintaining their own airplane so I guess I got off lucky.

What about once you have a job? I'm currently working as a pilot, does that mean I'm now allowed to own an airplane again? Or should I sell this one as well?
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Re: How to collect 1500 hrs

Post by Colonel Sanders »

All Your Base Are Belong to Us.
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