Instructor Fell Asleep

[theoscarpaco]

I'm very new to flight training, about 6 hours in. Today on our way out to the practice area my instructor fell asleep. I asked if we should call it a day because he was sleeping but he brushed it off immediately and started the lesson. Later on in the flight he was dozing off for a second time.

Is this something I should be concerned about for the future or should I brush it off as a "everybody has an off day" kind of thing? Because I work, most of my flights are in the evenings so I'm his last flight of the day. Since I'm so new to aviation I don't know how common this is in training, but I can imagine it's not something you're looking for in an instructor.

Any advice or input would be appreciated.

[200hr Wonder]

There is no way your instructor should be falling asleep. I would tell his CFI, demand my money back for the flight, at very least the instructor portion of it as he was not instructing. You are paying him good money to instruct, not sleep. Give him a second chance and if he does it again, never fly with him again. He is there to teach you how can he do it if he is not paying attention? He also there for lookout, which is a skill that you are not 100% proficient with. As well as the many other things that you are just learning. This is not acceptable. This is not safe.

[DeltaHotel]

Yes you should be concerned. Especially with only six hours in under your belt. Your instructor is there to teach but also to prevent a possible situation from degenerating.

This is not an instructor that has your back.
This might even be worth reporting to the CFI of your flight school.

[theoscarpaco]

He is the CFI.

[Shiny Side Up]

Take it as a good sign. If he can nap, it means you're doing well. Besides, its much more fun to fly when someone ain't nattering at you. Its like you've already went solo. Seriously though...

Because I work, most of my flights are in the evenings so I'm his last flight of the day.

I hate to tell you this, but if that's all the time you can spare for flight training, you might be stuck with putting up with it. Any instructor who's worth getting puts limits on their own time. This guy is probably burned out - especially if the poor soul (though not that poor, he's inflicted this on himself) is indeed the CFI. That means he's probably desperate to generate revenue for the company, get hours, get paid, or probably a combo of all three.

No it ain't normal. But its not that strange either. Unfortunately the world doesn't give a shit how many hours instructors spend on duty.

Yea, this kind of response is going to catch me a lot of flak, but there it is.

[DeltaHotel]

Part of what he should be teaching you is when and how to make the decision not to go flying. If he was THAT tired he should be responsible enough to say "sorry not today".

[Pop n Fresh]

Measure his neck?

I'm not sure if this should be scary or funny.

[Colonel Sanders]

I have $10 that says he's doing night ratings.

Everyone wants to do their night ratings at
the end of June, when the days are longest,
and you have to start flying at 10pm. You
might get to bed at 1am, then up again at
5am for a 6am flight.

Do that every day for 3 weeks and I guarantee
that you'll be falling asleep, too.

There are no duty limits on flight instruction
in Canada, and instructors are paid so little,
that they can't say no.

That said, about 20 years ago I was exhausted
from doing night ratings, and I was falling asleep
doing circuits with a guy the next day. After
takeoff I would doze off, and then struggle to
wake up on short final for the landing. Rinse,
lather, repeat.

I have no idea what the student thought. As
mentioned above, he should take it as a compliment!

[theoscarpaco]

I'll take your $10, there is no night this time of year here in the north and he's the only guy up here doing flight training.

I'll take it as a compliment and carry on, as I have exactly zero alternatives for flight training up here.

For the record, he's a nice guy. Must be a little worn out. I won't bring it up to him unless it happens again. He apologized after the flight.

[PilotDAR]

Well, I have to agree that you're entitled to the attention and instruction for which you're paying by the hour. I'll come back to that....

On the other hand, I am complimented when a passenger falls asleep, and I make it an objective to land and not wake them up.

But, you're not quite there yet, your instructor should be watching your flying. Give him/her another chance, but don't let it become a habit, or thought of as acceptable.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Part of what he should be teaching you is when and how to make the decision not to go flying. If he was THAT tired he should be responsible enough to say "sorry not today".

Of all the posts on this thread this is the one I like the best. An instructor has a duty of care to his/her student and falling asleep is by definition, not providing it. Hopefully your instructor has learned his lesson and will not do it again.

As for the comments on summer night ratings, been there done that. My first night rating was started on on June 22. I did not get home until 0030 with the next lesson starting at 0800. Fortunately I was able to arrange a later start to the next days flying after that, but it was still really, really painful. Now the only months I will do a night rating are November to February.

[photofly]

On the other hand, I am complimented when a passenger falls asleep, and I make it an objective to land and not wake them up.

I hate to be a party pooper, but you really ought to wake passengers up to give them a pre-landing briefing, for safety reasons, no?

Shoot me now.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Shoot me now.

OK

[trey kule]

On the upside an experienced dozing for dollars instructor has a great potential future as a long haul SO.

[PilotDAR]

but you really ought to wake passengers up to give them a pre-landing briefing, for safety reasons, no?

I believe that as long as the safety briefing is given prior to takeoff, which I always do, and the length of the flight does not exceed 4 hours, which mine do not, there is no requirement for another safety briefing prior to landing.

If the worst were to suddenly, unexpectedly happen during a planned runway landing, I would rather my passenger be asleep when it happened, they'll be more relaxed, and survive it better.

But, yes, if I'm landing on the water, or if I were planning to crash the plane, I would wake them up prior to doing so.....

[Shiny Side Up]

There are no duty limits on flight instruction
in Canada, and instructors are paid so little,
that they can't say no.

Well that's not quite true, but lets face it students will tend to seek out instructors that will be more convenient for them, so I hate to say it they usually end up getting what they're after. Getting an instructor when he's at his best, is far less important than getting him when you want him after all. Its all part of that Walmart world we live in.

[B52]

First, if he fell asleep with you, then you must be instilling a lot of confidence and
it can be really difficult staying awake doing some thing extremely boring with an engine droning away
especially if you have been booked solid, flying in good weather just after dawn to get off the first solos
before the wind picks up or weather turns bad, to getting those mandatory night flying done that can't be
done till the sun goes down and in Canada in the middle of the summer, its past everyone's bed time
in lower latitudes.

Summer can be a real bummer trying to get sleep with a sun that stays up late and gets up early.

I think your instructor would really appreciate it if you turned up with a strong coffee for him before
the flight and you might want to invest in some Costco coffee cups just to take one with you for
your sleepy CFI.

At this time of year, many instructors are booked solid for months in advance and with popular in demand
instructors, especially the experienced Class one's etc.

If you feeling confident, let the poor fellow grab 40 winks while you go to the training area and then wake him up
with that cup of coffee. Just bleed the top open carefully, at altitude, a hot coffee or tea can be compressed and
end up all over the ceiling or your face if you are not careful.


Now is the time of year, when lots of pilots are forced to fly when they are burnt out, and in two pilot crews, its perfectly normal for one
to curl up in a sleeping bag for an hour or so, and then have that wake up coffee, and once awake, let the
other pilot grab his bit of sleep so you are both wide awake for the landing at destination.


Your CFI would probably also appreciate it if you spoke to him directly instead of posting it for everyone to read
on AV Canada.

[theoscarpaco]

Your CFI would probably also appreciate it if you spoke to him directly instead of posting it for everyone to read
on AV Canada.

Like I said in the OP, he didn't want to talk about it. If there's one place I can come to for opinions and advice on this issue, it's here. I didn't name names and I don't plan to.

[trey kule]

Am I the only one that thinks when you are being paid to do a job you should do it?
How can you instruct, monitor, and sleep at the same time?
Yah, let the poor guy sleep. Bring him coffee. Really? How about the instructor taking a bit of responsibility for himself.
How about just letting him get 8 hours of solid sleep so he can do his job without dozing off. A training flight is not a marathon where one pilot qualified pilot can fly while the other naps.

I understand the demands put on instructors, but that simply is no excuse for sleeping while you are being paid to instruct..it is not about having confidence in the student.it is about being to tired to care

My rant for the day.or night

[Colonel Sanders]

TK: I might be wrong, but I doubt this kid's
instructor showed up for the flight in his PJ's
with a pillow and one of those elastic sleeping
masks to cover his eyes, to keep the light out.

He did not intend to sleep on that flight.

Having been there and done that, I can assure
you that he was trying as hard as he could to
stay awake, and could not.

From your comments, I'm not sure if you've
ever fallen asleep before, but sometimes it
happens without your voluntary control, when
you are exhausted.

summer night ratings ... My first night rating was started on on June 22. I did not get home until 0030 with the next lesson starting at 0800

TK: with all due respect, try doing that for 3
weeks in a row, and get back to us again. You
probably don't remember what it's like, starting
out, but a couple decades ago, when I was a young
and dumb class 2/CFI, we had a very hot, dry summer,
and I flew many trips every day, nonstop for a
couple of months.

As an airline pilot, you probably only fly a few times
a month, and don't realize that training aircraft don't
have air conditioning, so feel free to throw rocks at the
youngsters from your glass house, high up on the mountain.