Profit Sharing this April ?

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thrust set
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Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by thrust set » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:51 am

With regards to the profit share, I spoke with a union rep who seems to not be up to speed with respect to whether we will be receiving it this April. My wife who’s a FA mentioned she read somewhere that they’ll still receive theirs.

On the 737, this might be my one and only time to complete my man cave so other than the little paragraph from ACPA in March has anybody heard.

TS
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by Daniel Cooper » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:58 am

Why would the FA's get it and not the pilots? That doesn't make any sense.
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AOW
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by AOW » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:05 pm

ACPA is reviewing the options to see which profit sharing plan gives us (them!?) the best outcome... but they’ve been busy with other issues of late (that 737 thing, I think...), so they haven’t got around to doing the math yet.
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pilotbzh
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by pilotbzh » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:39 pm

We always get profit sharing on the 17th April pay, you will see the details around the 11th on your slip...Was about 8% of the previous year I suspect it may be less this year,,,
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by Jean-Pierre » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:48 pm

Why would it be based on a percentage of your salary? Did they lower paid pilot make the company less profit? If anything they made them more by costing them less.
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RRJetPilot
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by RRJetPilot » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:24 pm

Jean-Pierre wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:48 pm
Why would it be based on a percentage of your salary? Did they lower paid pilot make the company less profit? If anything they made them more by costing them less.
50% is by seniority, 50% split evenly,

The senior pilots are also upset there are more pilots on property they have to share it with :rolleyes:
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Fanblade
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by Fanblade » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:53 pm

RRJetPilot wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:24 pm
Jean-Pierre wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:48 pm
Why would it be based on a percentage of your salary? Did they lower paid pilot make the company less profit? If anything they made them more by costing them less.
50% is by seniority, 50% split evenly,

The senior pilots are also upset there are more pilots on property they have to share it with :rolleyes:
The profit share plan is the old plan and is paid, or at least was, paid wholly based on income. No even split.

The incentive plan is the new plan. That plan pays out as you suggest.

We get paid which ever is the highest aggregate amount.

No idea how this players out if the old plan has a higher aggregate amount.
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aerodude
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by aerodude » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:01 pm

RRJetPilot wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:24 pm
The senior pilots are also upset there are more pilots on property they have to share it with :rolleyes:
I haven't heard any senior pilots complain.
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altiplano
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by altiplano » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:14 pm

If they don't have the calculation done in time for payout this month, any ESOP guys with a significant match coming better plan accordingly... you'll take a big tax hit on it out of your flying pay.

For me in recent years, the after tax payout on the profit share has offset the taxes on the share match with a little left over to get something nice...

But if it's an extra $4k or 5k in taxes off your flying pay.. watch out... might leave you a little thin on the 17th...

Not just senior pilots are upset there are more people on the property with virtually the same total acpa payroll.... anyone I know that's paying attention is upset.

Average acpa pilot pay has been going down every year and whatever we get is being split more ways under the AIP... same pie, or even slightly smaller pie this year with more smaller chunks... I don't mind spreading around more pieces, but we need a bigger pie.

Everyone should be upset our average payroll is going down... where else in this profession is this happening?
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Ratherbe
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by Ratherbe » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:32 pm

The PS is showing on our pay statements now. Not as much as last year but still a nice sum.
Again, I agree the guys on flat pay need to be brought up higher in pay. However I don't mind sharing more of the PS pie with them through the new formula in the meantime. After all, over 50% of mine will go to taxes.
The average pilot pay is not a good benchmark though. If you look at the average pilot salary today for the pilots on the property when the ten year deal was passed I'm guessing it would show a big average pay raise as we have so many more wide body positions and left seat promotions.
Its a very good thing to have so many more jobs and so many more coming. Hopefully, the new guys on the MEC will be able to improve the lower salaries.
Personally I think the greatest chance of seeing a real increase is voting out Trudeau 2 asap and seeing our dollar recover its value.
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altiplano
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by altiplano » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:47 pm

Ratherbe wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:32 pm
If you look at the average pilot salary today for the pilots on the property when the ten year deal was passed I'm guessing it would show a big average pay raise as we have so many more wide body positions and left seat promotions.
You would be guessing wrong. Average ACPA pilot pay has declined year over year over year. That's not a guess.

The widebody FOs that aren't on flat pay or B-scale are on a lower rate than pre-FOS.
The widebody RPs are on a lower rate too.
Formula pay doesn't start until year 5.
787 guys are flying faster further then 767 guys did for about the same pay.
330 guys aren't grandfathered anymore - closed YVR/YYZ...
Let alone factored losses for inflation, cost of living, real estate prices in our biggest bases...

2% raise/year, and a 6% profit share...
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by RVR6000 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:21 am

Ratherbe wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:32 pm

Its a very good thing to have so many more jobs and so many more coming. Hopefully, the new guys on the MEC will be able to improve the lower salaries.
Personally I think the greatest chance of seeing a real increase is voting out Trudeau 2 asap and seeing our dollar recover its value.

Do you believe the key to our growth was the 10 year deal. If we had said No in 2014 the airlines growth plans would’ve shelved? after all we were working under the company’s own contract under FOS.

Voting Trudeau out won’t magically increase prices, our dollar is highly tied to the price of crude. The country needs to realize the world is moving past oil, even the Saudis are frantically trying to diversify.
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ashtray
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by ashtray » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:11 am

Altiplano

You would be guessing wrong. Average ACPA pilot pay has declined year over year over year. That's not a guess.

The widebody FOs that aren't on flat pay or B-scale are on a lower rate than pre-FOS.
The widebody RPs are on a lower rate too.
Formula pay doesn't start until year 5.
787 guys are flying faster further then 767 guys did for about the same pay.
330 guys aren't grandfathered anymore - closed YVR/YYZ...
Let alone factored losses for inflation, cost of living, real estate prices in our biggest bases...

2% raise/year, and a 6% profit share...

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************
Altiplano, not sure what you mean by 'factored losses for inflation'. Here are the inflation rates in Canada for the last six years....

2013: 1.24%
2014: 1.47%
2015: 1.61%
2016: 1.50%
2017: 1.56%
2018: 0.31%

Over the same period the Consumer Price Index has increased on average by 1.6% annually (122.1 in 2013 vs 134.3 in 2018). ( Source Statistics Canada)

Not sure when your contract was renewed but if you are getting 2% annually, are you not ahead of the game, yes?

As for real estate prices, i agree that they have increased but a significant portion of this increase has been because of the stimulative affect of low interest rates, and the wealth effect it creates. So anyone who owns a house, or other financial assets, are wealthier today than they were before the 2008 recession. As for places like Toronto, hasn't higher prices always been a reality? I recall reading an accident report from 1970, and the pilots talking about the high cost of housing in Toronto when they were approaching the airport. My friends at the airline tell me most pilots are commuters and choose to live in smaller cities/towns an hour or so away from the airport.
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Ratherbe
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by Ratherbe » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:09 am

No I don’t think that TA10 was the key to AC’s successful business plan. I’m sure that the wide body growth would have occurred but just at higher costs with lower profits. Having all the unions agree to long term labour peace was a major achievement by management - not so great for the unions unless you look at the increase in union dues.
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Ratherbe
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by Ratherbe » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:27 am

altiplano wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:47 pm
Ratherbe wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:32 pm
If you look at the average pilot salary today for the pilots on the property when the ten year deal was passed I'm guessing it would show a big average pay raise as we have so many more wide body positions and left seat promotions.
You would be guessing wrong. Average ACPA pilot pay has declined year over year over year. That's not a guess.

The widebody FOs that aren't on flat pay or B-scale are on a lower rate than pre-FOS.
The widebody RPs are on a lower rate too.
Formula pay doesn't start until year 5.
787 guys are flying faster further then 767 guys did for about the same pay.
330 guys aren't grandfathered anymore - closed YVR/YYZ...
Let alone factored losses for inflation, cost of living, real estate prices in our biggest bases...

2% raise/year, and a 6% profit share...
I think you misunderstood what I was guessing. Did the pilots make a reasonable decision by voting in favour of TA10? Look at the average salary today (T4) for the pilots who voted. We have had so much growth on the higher paying wide bodies that there are even a few new hire vacancies on the B777 FO position.
As for your “other factors” don’t forget to include a “sunny days” government that brought higher taxes and a lower dollar with its extreme left-leaning approach.
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altiplano
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by altiplano » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:12 am

I see what your saying there...

I should hope that, on average, guys that were here 5 years ago would be making more... That is normal... guys move up the ladder.

But that isn't because of TA10. What we are seeing is progression related to retirements, and orders that were already planned - 787, NB fleet renewal, etc.

That was already happening.

And we locked in while the industry around us moved up and the world just gets more expensive... Like 10 years? Really?

I'm no Trudeau fan, but he has hardly brought the decline in our dollar. That was already happening before he got here, and I would argue the petro-dollar boat that the previous government hitched us to is the problem on that... inflation, col, real estate... that goes back as well... cheap money and an entitled population are driving there... certainly that existed before Trudeau's watch began. Taxes? Every Canadian government overtaxes us... Conservatives gave us an extra special fucking too... that hurt more than the top marginal point added... and we're absolutely going the wrong way. I wouldn't mind paying so much if I saw value... but schools are crumbling, medical waitlists are growing, infrastructure improvements are frozen by special interests and aboriginal claims that are counter the greater public good... military acquisitions are a mess... how much money gets pissed up ropes there? Between cancellations, no decisions, and used crap... jeez... getting off topic...
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by palebird » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:41 pm

This is an amusing post I must say.

Canadian dollar recovery? We are only in the early stages of the Canadian dollar sinking in relation to the USD. It will be dramatic. What is going to prop it up? We sold all our gold reserves and are alienating our major trade partners.

Inflation rates? Those must be "official" rates which do not reflect genuine consumer inflation. Don't believe me, just do a little research on the topic.

World abondoning oil? Who? Where? I don't think so, not for a very long time. Don't believe all the hype on tv. Once again do some research. This world runs on oil and there is nothing to replace it. Period.
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altiplano
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Re: Profit Sharing this April ?

Post by altiplano » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:42 pm

palebird wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:41 pm
This is an amusing post I must say.

Canadian dollar recovery? We are only in the early stages of the Canadian dollar sinking in relation to the USD. It will be dramatic. What is going to prop it up? We sold all our gold reserves and are alienating our major trade partners.

Inflation rates? Those must be "official" rates which do not reflect genuine consumer inflation. Don't believe me, just do a little research on the topic.

World abondoning oil? Who? Where? I don't think so, not for a very long time. Don't believe all the hype on tv. Once again do some research. This world runs on oil and there is nothing to replace it. Period.
I'm not sure I follow most of what you're saying... or what's "amusing"?

CAD is so far down... maybe there is more to go... Oil is posed to rally though, that might help... I think Jason Kenney is a douche, but UCP in AB might help... I'm middling on my optimism though given our other prospects.

Inflation? What are you saying exactly? I believe it's higher than the "official" level. I think we all see that, gas prices, food prices, insurance, mortgage and housing costs, consumer goods... up, up, up...

I don't see anyone other than far left green new deal jack asses and my neighbour with 3 Teslas talking about abandoning oil... anyway... glad my post amused...
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