C series
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: C series
60% discount and charges concerning AVEOS were dropped.
smart move from AC and you can be pretty sure that Bombardier and the Qc gov representatives were begging for a deal at any price.
smart move from AC and you can be pretty sure that Bombardier and the Qc gov representatives were begging for a deal at any price.
Re: C series
From CIBC World Markets' latest report on Air Canada:
2. C Series Decision - Significant Savings: The decision to acquire the C Series had many direct and indirect positive implications. Firstly, it reflects the fact that the ERJs in the fleet today will hit a maintenance wall in 2021 and the economics of investing in this existing fleet did not make sense. As such the company's LOI for 45 firm CS300s and an option for 30 more are to replace these aircraft. Given that the C Series is a more efficient plane, and we suspect a healthy discount from list price, the payback from this investment is very attractive. Secondly, with 25 E190s in the fleet at the end of 2016, a chunk of the CS300s coming in are replacing existing aircraft with growth opportunities coming from the aircraft providing more point-to-point options. As well, we believe the C Series could be used in rouge as a potential future replacement for the A319s. Thirdly, AC has ensured that the delivery of the C Series is post its refleeting of the 787s and towards the end of when the 737 MAX come in so that it does not stress the balance sheet. And lastly, in conjunction with the C Series order, the Quebec Government dropped its litigation related to AC in regard to maintenance activity being performed in the province (AC agreed to have its C Series airframe heavy maintenance work performed in Quebec) and the Federal Government is reviewing the Air Canada Public Participation Act as it relates to maintenance activities
https://eresonatemedia.com/
https://bambaits.ca/
https://youtube.com/channel/UCWit8N8YCJSvSaiSw5EWWeQ
https://bambaits.ca/
https://youtube.com/channel/UCWit8N8YCJSvSaiSw5EWWeQ
Re: C series
Rouge does not need C-series to replace the 319's. It needs the 737MAX which will have the lowest per seat operating cost in the narrow body class in a bulked up seating configuration.
Any idea what the pay rate will be on the C-series using the weight/speed formula? Clearly it will be far above the E190 but below the blended rate mainline NB Airbus rate.
Any idea what the pay rate will be on the C-series using the weight/speed formula? Clearly it will be far above the E190 but below the blended rate mainline NB Airbus rate.
Re: C series
I've been wondering the same thing. And for that matter (at the risk of thread drift), anyone done the math on what the blended 737 MAX pay rates will be? Same as A320 pay, or a touch better?rudder wrote:Rouge does not need C-series to replace the 319's. It needs the 737MAX which will have the lowest per seat operating cost in the narrow body class in a bulked up seating configuration.
Any idea what the pay rate will be on the C-series using the weight/speed formula? Clearly it will be far above the E190 but below the blended rate mainline NB Airbus rate.
-
- Rank 8
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm
Re: C series
Since there have been some interesting comments made here, I thought I'd set the record straight on a couple of them.
1. Bombardier doesn't sell aircraft in Cdn dollars. They only sell in U.S. Dollars, just like all the other OEMs. For obvious reasons.
2. The CS100 CASM is the lowest in the airline industry. Their isn't a Boeing anywhere near it.
3. Air Canada has been looking at the C series for a long time. So have a number of legacy airlines. British Airways among them. I doubt they would have bought the aeroplane if it didn't fit their fleet planning and its commercial viability looking to the future.
Gino
1. Bombardier doesn't sell aircraft in Cdn dollars. They only sell in U.S. Dollars, just like all the other OEMs. For obvious reasons.
2. The CS100 CASM is the lowest in the airline industry. Their isn't a Boeing anywhere near it.
3. Air Canada has been looking at the C series for a long time. So have a number of legacy airlines. British Airways among them. I doubt they would have bought the aeroplane if it didn't fit their fleet planning and its commercial viability looking to the future.
Gino
- Old fella
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2394
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
- Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.
Re: C series
Glad you intend to get the record straight Gino, but it should be " There isn't a Boeing anywhere near it"
-
- Rank 8
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm
Re: C series
Right you are. Oops.
Cheers,
Gino
Cheers,
Gino
"I'll tell you what's wrong with society. No one drinks from the skulls of their enemies!"
- Old fella
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2394
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
- Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.
Re: C series
Taking the "their" out of the"there", your knowledge on the subject at hand is certainly well above mine. Syntax aside, I would be unarmed going up against you on many of the topics discussed.
-
- Rank 0
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:24 am
Re: C series
New to the forum. Any news or additional details on the CS300 arrival at AC? Any recent news on how it could be used? Will it still fly for mainline or would they be considered for Rouge? What's the latest?
-
- Rank 8
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm
Re: C series
There is no sign of life regarding C series at Air Canada.
Perhaps their focus is on the Max right now. Possibly even due to the fact they won't see the C till 2019 (or so).
GU
Perhaps their focus is on the Max right now. Possibly even due to the fact they won't see the C till 2019 (or so).
GU
"I'll tell you what's wrong with society. No one drinks from the skulls of their enemies!"
Re: C series
Gino is right. Lots to investment and preparation for the 737.
The only thing I heard, AC might actually order more c-series (if the price is right).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-can ... -1.4370933
The only thing I heard, AC might actually order more c-series (if the price is right).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-can ... -1.4370933
-
- Rank 8
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm
Re: C series
With Delta delaying C series entry until the Airbus plant in Alabama can deliver, it could give Air Canada (Rouge) the opportunity to see the CS300 earlier than planned. Bombardier has to renegotiate some deliveries now that Airbus is taking over the program.
Gino
Gino
"I'll tell you what's wrong with society. No one drinks from the skulls of their enemies!"
Re: C series
While they may be available sooner I just can't see AC getting them sooner. It's a very aggressive program bringing the 737 into the fleet and I think we're "maxed" out.Gino Under wrote:With Delta delaying C series entry until the Airbus plant in Alabama can deliver, it could give Air Canada (Rouge) the opportunity to see the CS300 earlier than planned. Bombardier has to renegotiate some deliveries now that Airbus is taking over the program.
Gino
Re: C series
The DAL orders are CS100’s. The AC order is CS300’s. While I am certain that there is a substitution provision in the purchase agreement, I am not sure that AC is interested in the smaller version.
-
- Rank 8
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm
Re: C series
The difference between the 100 and 300 is simply a fuselage plug. That’s it.
Bombardier doesn’t need to make any exception during production or special changes in production line order.
In fact, if Delta decided they wanted to convert an in-service 100 into a 300, there’s an STC that allows Bombardier to split the fuselage, drop in the fuselage plug and voila... the 100 is now a 300. Way les$$ than buying a brand new aircraft and waiting for it to be built.
The unidentified European carrier that ordered 31 should have a better than expected delivery schedule as a result of Deltas delay.
Delta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early. Including some 100s if they’ve noticed it’s versatility?
It’s up to the route planners in the end.
Gino
Bombardier doesn’t need to make any exception during production or special changes in production line order.
In fact, if Delta decided they wanted to convert an in-service 100 into a 300, there’s an STC that allows Bombardier to split the fuselage, drop in the fuselage plug and voila... the 100 is now a 300. Way les$$ than buying a brand new aircraft and waiting for it to be built.
The unidentified European carrier that ordered 31 should have a better than expected delivery schedule as a result of Deltas delay.
Delta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early. Including some 100s if they’ve noticed it’s versatility?
It’s up to the route planners in the end.
Gino
"I'll tell you what's wrong with society. No one drinks from the skulls of their enemies!"
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:37 pm
Re: C series
Looks like the CSeries, errr A220, is in the Navi magazine now! Any new developments at AC about possible routes? I saw YVR-BOS, Eastern Canada-Europe, and Hawaii mentioned in an older interview article with Ben Smith.
Not sure if there’s a business case for it with the train service from Heathrow to London, but it would be really neat to see AC start YYZ-YUL-LCY!Gino Under wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:00 pmDelta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early.
- schnitzel2k3
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1456
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm
Re: C series
Agreed!TheStig wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:08 amThere is no limbo. The 10 year contract between ACPA and Air Canada signed last year has 3 re-openers, which can go to arbitration. However, having watched an arbitrator give the E175's away there is now language preventing scope from being an article to which an arbitrator can rule over.bobcaygeon wrote:Scope used to be 50 seats (with the F28/BAE146 grandfathered in).
On the positive note (for management) there will be almost 4 years for everybody to "Limbo" to see how low they can go.
Existing deals mean nothing as there are always contract openers and LOU's to be used. aka Sky Regional and Georgian jet flying as an example.
If you think there are any conditions ACPA would negotiate away roughly 1000 positions, you're crazy.
I'm not sure where the sentiment that the regionals deserve a 'share' of these aircraft comes from? A 150 seat aircraft with a range of 3000+nm isn't a regional airplane. These will be good paying mainline jobs, this is a good thing for pilots.
S.
Re: C series
As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
Re: C series
As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.
Re: C series
It's cause it (used to be) a bombardier product and bombardier=regional in most people's minds. Maybe now that it's airbus that mindset will slowly go away?
On a side note, how is an RJ flying YVR-ORD "regional"?