C series

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scopiton
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Re: C series

Post by scopiton »

60% discount and charges concerning AVEOS were dropped.
smart move from AC and you can be pretty sure that Bombardier and the Qc gov representatives were begging for a deal at any price.
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teacher
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Re: C series

Post by teacher »

From CIBC World Markets' latest report on Air Canada:
2. C Series Decision - Significant Savings: The decision to acquire the C Series had many direct and indirect positive implications. Firstly, it reflects the fact that the ERJs in the fleet today will hit a maintenance wall in 2021 and the economics of investing in this existing fleet did not make sense. As such the company's LOI for 45 firm CS300s and an option for 30 more are to replace these aircraft. Given that the C Series is a more efficient plane, and we suspect a healthy discount from list price, the payback from this investment is very attractive. Secondly, with 25 E190s in the fleet at the end of 2016, a chunk of the CS300s coming in are replacing existing aircraft with growth opportunities coming from the aircraft providing more point-to-point options. As well, we believe the C Series could be used in rouge as a potential future replacement for the A319s. Thirdly, AC has ensured that the delivery of the C Series is post its refleeting of the 787s and towards the end of when the 737 MAX come in so that it does not stress the balance sheet. And lastly, in conjunction with the C Series order, the Quebec Government dropped its litigation related to AC in regard to maintenance activity being performed in the province (AC agreed to have its C Series airframe heavy maintenance work performed in Quebec) and the Federal Government is reviewing the Air Canada Public Participation Act as it relates to maintenance activities
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rudder
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Re: C series

Post by rudder »

Rouge does not need C-series to replace the 319's. It needs the 737MAX which will have the lowest per seat operating cost in the narrow body class in a bulked up seating configuration.

Any idea what the pay rate will be on the C-series using the weight/speed formula? Clearly it will be far above the E190 but below the blended rate mainline NB Airbus rate.
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aV1aTOr
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Re: C series

Post by aV1aTOr »

rudder wrote:Rouge does not need C-series to replace the 319's. It needs the 737MAX which will have the lowest per seat operating cost in the narrow body class in a bulked up seating configuration.

Any idea what the pay rate will be on the C-series using the weight/speed formula? Clearly it will be far above the E190 but below the blended rate mainline NB Airbus rate.
I've been wondering the same thing. And for that matter (at the risk of thread drift), anyone done the math on what the blended 737 MAX pay rates will be? Same as A320 pay, or a touch better?
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under »

Since there have been some interesting comments made here, I thought I'd set the record straight on a couple of them.

1. Bombardier doesn't sell aircraft in Cdn dollars. They only sell in U.S. Dollars, just like all the other OEMs. For obvious reasons.

2. The CS100 CASM is the lowest in the airline industry. Their isn't a Boeing anywhere near it.

3. Air Canada has been looking at the C series for a long time. So have a number of legacy airlines. British Airways among them. I doubt they would have bought the aeroplane if it didn't fit their fleet planning and its commercial viability looking to the future.

Gino :partyman:
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Re: C series

Post by Old fella »

Glad you intend to get the record straight Gino, but it should be " There isn't a Boeing anywhere near it"
:wink:
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under »

Right you are. Oops.

Cheers,
Gino :drinkers:
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Re: C series

Post by Old fella »

Taking the "their" out of the"there", your knowledge on the subject at hand is certainly well above mine. Syntax aside, I would be unarmed going up against you on many of the topics discussed.

:drinkers: :drinkers: :partyman:
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Cseriesfan
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Re: C series

Post by Cseriesfan »

New to the forum. Any news or additional details on the CS300 arrival at AC? Any recent news on how it could be used? Will it still fly for mainline or would they be considered for Rouge? What's the latest?
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under »

There is no sign of life regarding C series at Air Canada.
Perhaps their focus is on the Max right now. Possibly even due to the fact they won't see the C till 2019 (or so).

GU :?:
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sanjet
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Re: C series

Post by sanjet »

Gino is right. Lots to investment and preparation for the 737.


The only thing I heard, AC might actually order more c-series (if the price is right).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-can ... -1.4370933
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under »

With Delta delaying C series entry until the Airbus plant in Alabama can deliver, it could give Air Canada (Rouge) the opportunity to see the CS300 earlier than planned. Bombardier has to renegotiate some deliveries now that Airbus is taking over the program.

Gino :partyman:
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Rockie
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Re: C series

Post by Rockie »

Gino Under wrote:With Delta delaying C series entry until the Airbus plant in Alabama can deliver, it could give Air Canada (Rouge) the opportunity to see the CS300 earlier than planned. Bombardier has to renegotiate some deliveries now that Airbus is taking over the program.

Gino :partyman:
While they may be available sooner I just can't see AC getting them sooner. It's a very aggressive program bringing the 737 into the fleet and I think we're "maxed" out.
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rudder
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Re: C series

Post by rudder »

The DAL orders are CS100’s. The AC order is CS300’s. While I am certain that there is a substitution provision in the purchase agreement, I am not sure that AC is interested in the smaller version.
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under »

The difference between the 100 and 300 is simply a fuselage plug. That’s it.
Bombardier doesn’t need to make any exception during production or special changes in production line order.
In fact, if Delta decided they wanted to convert an in-service 100 into a 300, there’s an STC that allows Bombardier to split the fuselage, drop in the fuselage plug and voila... the 100 is now a 300. Way les$$ than buying a brand new aircraft and waiting for it to be built.

The unidentified European carrier that ordered 31 should have a better than expected delivery schedule as a result of Deltas delay.

Delta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early. Including some 100s if they’ve noticed it’s versatility?
It’s up to the route planners in the end.

:partyman: Gino
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Speedalive
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Re: C series

Post by Speedalive »

Looks like the CSeries, errr A220, is in the Navi magazine now! Any new developments at AC about possible routes? I saw YVR-BOS, Eastern Canada-Europe, and Hawaii mentioned in an older interview article with Ben Smith.
Gino Under wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:00 pmDelta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early.
Not sure if there’s a business case for it with the train service from Heathrow to London, but it would be really neat to see AC start YYZ-YUL-LCY!

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schnitzel2k3
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Re: C series

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

TheStig wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:08 am
bobcaygeon wrote:Scope used to be 50 seats (with the F28/BAE146 grandfathered in).

On the positive note (for management) there will be almost 4 years for everybody to "Limbo" to see how low they can go.
Existing deals mean nothing as there are always contract openers and LOU's to be used. aka Sky Regional and Georgian jet flying as an example.
There is no limbo. The 10 year contract between ACPA and Air Canada signed last year has 3 re-openers, which can go to arbitration. However, having watched an arbitrator give the E175's away there is now language preventing scope from being an article to which an arbitrator can rule over.

If you think there are any conditions ACPA would negotiate away roughly 1000 positions, you're crazy.

I'm not sure where the sentiment that the regionals deserve a 'share' of these aircraft comes from? A 150 seat aircraft with a range of 3000+nm isn't a regional airplane. These will be good paying mainline jobs, this is a good thing for pilots.
Agreed!

S.
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Re: C series

Post by daedalusx »

As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.
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Lightchop
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Re: C series

Post by Lightchop »

daedalusx wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:30 pm As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.
As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.
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goleafsgo
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Re: C series

Post by goleafsgo »

Lightchop wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:46 pm
daedalusx wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:30 pm As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.
As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.
It's cause it (used to be) a bombardier product and bombardier=regional in most people's minds. Maybe now that it's airbus that mindset will slowly go away?

On a side note, how is an RJ flying YVR-ORD "regional"?
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