The Air Canada OTS thread

[co-joe]

Would anyone mind commenting on what the in person interview is like in 2019? I went through it over a decade ago, but just curious what the new format is like.

Thanks in advance. Sorry for asking in 2 threads, I got confused where I was...

CJ

[EPR]

Daniel Cooper wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:20 am
"There are 777 Captains joining AC these days as new hires. I don't think they are worried about the extra responsibility of being 787 FO. If anything some people probably prefer to be flying instead of being a ride along".

Yah...I call bull shit!
So what you're saying is Captains from Emirates or Cathay are resigning to come fly at Big Red for 40 grande flat pay for 4 years and a shitty schedule to boot?
#Notachance

['97 Tercel]

[mixturerich]

Daniel Cooper wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:20 am
"There are 777 Captains joining AC these days as new hires. I don't think they are worried about the extra responsibility of being 787 FO. If anything some people probably prefer to be flying instead of being a ride along".

Yah...I call bull shit!
So what you're saying is Captains from Emirates or Cathay are resigning to come fly at Big Red for 40 grande flat pay for 4 years and a shitty schedule to boot?
#Notachance

From what I hear about CX and Emirates, I wouldn’t be surprised. Chance to move back to Canada and not have a schedule that destroys your body and soul anymore. Worth the pay cut for some.

[altiplano]

Daniel Cooper wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:20 am
"There are 777 Captains joining AC these days as new hires. I don't think they are worried about the extra responsibility of being 787 FO. If anything some people probably prefer to be flying instead of being a ride along".

Yah...I call bull shit!
So what you're saying is Captains from Emirates or Cathay are resigning to come fly at Big Red for 40 grande flat pay for 4 years and a shitty schedule to boot?
#Notachance

You can call bullshit, but you'd be wrong. AC isn't filling up their classes with these types, but there are a handful of Captains from foreign carriers joining, and a pile of FOs.

There was at least one Captain from Emirates, for sure, also one from Etihad... I don't think there were any Captains from Cathay, 8-10 year FOs from what I know,

I saw Captains from other foreign carriers too - ANA, Qatar, Thomas Cook, Ryan Air, Air China, etc...

Also for the sake of accuracy, flat pay, while too low, isn't 40K for 4 years... More like 60K rising to 85K by year 4, and that's just the guarantee based on 75 hours, higher block months pay more, OT pays more, training/sim pays more, plus benefits, plus pension, plus profit share...

[goingnowherefast]

Make your millions flying overseas, come back to Canada to spend some time with family. Buy the house with cash and get a crap paying job to keep entertained until retirement in a couple years.

[Daniel Cooper]

Make your millions flying overseas, come back to Canada to spend some time with family. Buy the house with cash and get a crap paying job to keep entertained until retirement in a couple years.

They did. And that job is pilot at Air Canada.

[BenniFlyer]

Daniel Cooper wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:20 am
"There are 777 Captains joining AC these days as new hires. I don't think they are worried about the extra responsibility of being 787 FO. If anything some people probably prefer to be flying instead of being a ride along".

Yah...I call bull shit!
So what you're saying is Captains from Emirates or Cathay are resigning to come fly at Big Red for 40 grande flat pay for 4 years and a shitty schedule to boot?
#Notachance

You can call bullshit, but you'd be wrong. AC isn't filling up their classes with these types, but there are a handful of Captains from foreign carriers joining, and a pile of FOs.

There was at least one Captain from Emirates, for sure, also one from Etihad... I don't think there were any Captains from Cathay, 8-10 year FOs from what I know,

I saw Captains from other foreign carriers too - ANA, Qatar, Thomas Cook, Ryan Air, Air China, etc...

Also for the sake of accuracy, flat pay, while too low, isn't 40K for 4 years... More like 60K rising to 85K by year 4, and that's just the guarantee based on 75 hours, higher block months pay more, OT pays more, training/sim pays more, plus benefits, plus pension, plus profit share...

54k , 59k, 67k, 75k to be more accurate for the guarantee. Your numbers are closer to the total amount with all the other add ons.

[BenniFlyer]

Make your millions flying overseas, come back to Canada to spend some time with family. Buy the house with cash and get a crap paying job to keep entertained until retirement in a couple years.

They did. And that job is pilot at Air Canada.

Going back to my response, to spend time with your family. Wouldn’t you rather be a more senior RP than a junior FO for the first 4 years making the same pay? I’m just talking about common sense. If possible, why would you bid to a position where you had more control over your life if it didn’t adversely affect your pay?

[EPR]

Ok then I stand corrected!

[groundpilot]

Don’t get me wrong..the person who negotiated 4 years flat pay should taken behind a shed and put down...

But when you throw in all the extras and the option of bidding left seat early on, it is not THAT bad...

[altiplano]

Daniel Cooper wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:20 am
"There are 777 Captains joining AC these days as new hires. I don't think they are worried about the extra responsibility of being 787 FO. If anything some people probably prefer to be flying instead of being a ride along".

Yah...I call bull shit!
So what you're saying is Captains from Emirates or Cathay are resigning to come fly at Big Red for 40 grande flat pay for 4 years and a shitty schedule to boot?
#Notachance

You can call bullshit, but you'd be wrong. AC isn't filling up their classes with these types, but there are a handful of Captains from foreign carriers joining, and a pile of FOs.

There was at least one Captain from Emirates, for sure, also one from Etihad... I don't think there were any Captains from Cathay, 8-10 year FOs from what I know,

I saw Captains from other foreign carriers too - ANA, Qatar, Thomas Cook, Ryan Air, Air China, etc...

Also for the sake of accuracy, flat pay, while too low, isn't 40K for 4 years... More like 60K rising to 85K by year 4, and that's just the guarantee based on 75 hours, higher block months pay more, OT pays more, training/sim pays more, plus benefits, plus pension, plus profit share...

54k , 59k, 67k, 75k to be more accurate for the guarantee. Your numbers are closer to the total amount with all the other add ons.

I was just going off the top of my head, for anyone interested here's the monthly guarantees for 2019:

$4504.50
$4925.25
$5613.13
$6285.00

add 3⅓% for the Rouge guarantee...
add 2%/year, by the time someone joining today reaches year 4, they would be almost 85K in guarantee.

I wouldn't underestimate the pension & benefit value also, it's worth much more than $5-10K/year.

[jpilot77]

Plus if you bid to Rouge you can make substantially more if you are willing to pick up draft.

[SAExpress]

There were 2 Emirates 777 captains in my PIT course. Flat pay for a few years is better than living out your days in Dubai doing 20+ days a month of long haul. With the potential for quick upgrades, people are making big leaps nowadays.

[ToolShed]

Plus if you bid to Rouge you can make substantially more if you are willing to pick up draft.

Working on a day off is not a raise.

[jpilot77]

Never said it was a raise. But if you need more money for the first 4 years plus a decent schedule Rouge is what to bid for.

[BenniFlyer]

Could anyone please explain why someone would willfully take the FO position, making the same or less than the Rp sitting behind with a better lifestyle and schedule?

[Daniel Cooper]

Sounds corny but you get more than just pay working as an FO, you get experience. Sure you learn while you're an RP too but it's a far cry from actually doing it. FO experience helps you be a Captain. RP experience helps you be an FO, if you need it.

[BenniFlyer]

Sounds corny but you get more than just pay working as an FO, you get experience. Sure you learn while you're an RP too but it's a far cry from actually doing it. FO experience helps you be a Captain. RP experience helps you be an FO, if you need it.

You mentioned some of these people being former 777 Captains...why would they need the experience? If management used the pitch of “Sounds corny but you get more than just pay working as an FO, you get experience” I’m sure there would be a lot of eye rolling going on.

Why not enjoy the schedule for a year, get some seniority and learn the new company policies then move to FO even then? There’s no hurry for these guys to go left seat of an 87 or 777 since they’re new hires with roughly 1000 pilots hired ahead of them in the last few years.

[BenniFlyer]

You can call bullshit, but you'd be wrong. AC isn't filling up their classes with these types, but there are a handful of Captains from foreign carriers joining, and a pile of FOs.

There was at least one Captain from Emirates, for sure, also one from Etihad... I don't think there were any Captains from Cathay, 8-10 year FOs from what I know,

I saw Captains from other foreign carriers too - ANA, Qatar, Thomas Cook, Ryan Air, Air China, etc...

Also for the sake of accuracy, flat pay, while too low, isn't 40K for 4 years... More like 60K rising to 85K by year 4, and that's just the guarantee based on 75 hours, higher block months pay more, OT pays more, training/sim pays more, plus benefits, plus pension, plus profit share...

54k , 59k, 67k, 75k to be more accurate for the guarantee. Your numbers are closer to the total amount with all the other add ons.

I was just going off the top of my head, for anyone interested here's the monthly guarantees for 2019:

$4504.50
$4925.25
$5613.13
$6285.00

add 3⅓% for the Rouge guarantee...
add 2%/year, by the time someone joining today reaches year 4, they would be almost 85K in guarantee.

I wouldn't underestimate the pension & benefit value also, it's worth much more than $5-10K/year.

I get what you’re saying, and understand you were just throwing out ballpark figures. I just don’t appreciate inflating what are, given experienced pilots, very low income amounts.

2% inflation shouldn’t be mentioned to inflate the number to 85K as well, I get that pay should go with inflatio, that’s a given. It should increase in 4 years just like it should in 30 years. Also to mention all the other benefits to prove your point is cherry picking. You could easily bring out negatives to counter that, such as the price of living in Yyz or Yvr.

Let’s just let the low income level on flat pay speak for itself. It also hurts thinking that around 1/3 of the pilots are in their first 4 years. (Which means ACs total payroll should increase substantially as they move off flat pay, and then we will negotiate higher pay for the first 4 years and lesser pay after the year 4 to compensate).