Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
infiniteregulus
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:46 am

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by infiniteregulus »

I'm sure a pay raise would help out a lot more than a few passes for the hundreds of folks commuting into work into the most expensive cities in Canada haha.
---------- ADS -----------
 
yycflyguy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by yycflyguy »

Before centralized crew scheduling, and before the F/A's got their first "Me Too" to the pilot contract ("per diem" expenses were raised to be the same as those of the pilots).
The interesting fact here is that FAs receive better per diems today than pilots on the same layover. Why is that? Should ACPA be filing a grievance against CUPE/AC due to selective preference (read: discriminatory practice) to cover the same employee expenses on company business time?

I thought retiree priority degraded to C3 upon retirement date? I didn't know they kept C2 status. Is that correct?
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by altiplano »

yycflyguy wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 1:06 pm
Before centralized crew scheduling, and before the F/A's got their first "Me Too" to the pilot contract ("per diem" expenses were raised to be the same as those of the pilots).
The interesting fact here is that FAs receive better per diems today than pilots on the same layover. Why is that? Should ACPA be filing a grievance against CUPE/AC due to selective preference (read: discriminatory practice) to cover the same employee expenses on company business time?

I thought retiree priority degraded to C3 upon retirement date? I didn't know they kept C2 status. Is that correct?
My father inlaw retired with C2 plus the JSA passes... maybe some packages are different.
---------- ADS -----------
 
yycflyguy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by yycflyguy »

Does it make a difference if they retired from Canadian or AC?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Sharklasers
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by Sharklasers »

yycflyguy wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 6:39 pm Does it make a difference if they retired from Canadian or AC?
Retired regional pilots that were grandfathered into C2s drop to C3 at retirement,
---------- ADS -----------
 
Stu Pidasso
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by Stu Pidasso »

Sinister wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:30 pm But perception is reality. Try coming back from Barbados, with 25-plus years of seniority, seeing your family seconded to a recent hire and his or her young family, and having to spend another two or three days waiting for an opening. The optics are not pretty. There is a view that management should want to encourage factors that unite the employees as a group, rather than classifying employee groups according to a separate scale of values.
In a perfect world, Sinister, I might almost agree with you. However....and that is a big However.....the company started the B1's long ago. Giving them to almost every non-Union employee, from all the Clip Board Managers to Secretaries. Compound that with the volume of C1's in the system, which the FA's get a bunch, it is almost impossible to travel on a C2 or less.

Plus - the FA's do not pay service charges on their passes.

Contrary to what the Yammer crowd might think, we are not all equal and it is well past time to push back.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by confusedalot »

I guess I had too much jack daniels.

Can someone educate me on the difference of a ''B'' pass as opposed to a ''C'' pass?

I know the C pass thing, was a lowly and useless feeder airplane driver, ohmygosh sitting in the left seat with all of the accountablilty if I even screwed up once on the most minor of issues, but hey I got something called a C4 privilege. lucky me.

Through hard experience, I know that C4 means absolutely nothing...............

I detect that former employees of the royal family have passes that are superior to pretty much everyone?

So once again, what is a ''B'' privilege, as opposed to a ''C'' privilege?

Man.....the privileged in conflict with the have nots......You'd figure we were in 18th century Britain, class system and all, because of almost free travel gifts???

Sad indeed to see this sort of greed. I am retired, but not air canada retired. Just a run of the mill airplane driver. You would usually give respect to retirees for their service, reading this sort of stuff on the internet, really makes you scratch your head.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
Sharklasers
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by Sharklasers »

Edit: Pointless.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Stu Pidasso
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by Stu Pidasso »

Sinister wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:44 pm Wrong assumption. I am a member of ACPA, not CUPE. And my point still stands. As employees entitled to the benefit of passes, yes, we are equal, or at least we should be equals. The more we are divided the less the strength of the group as a whole. Please don't tell me that the family of two-year R/P should displace the family of a 35-year agent who has withered lay-offs, mergers, recessions and bankruptcy simply because the new-hire is something special when it comes to pass travel—that his little cog in the machinery is so much more important than the other cogs in the machinery that enable the big machine to work.
Further to the point, Sinister, is the 2 year RP is likely in his (or her's) early 30's. Invested in excess of $100K in training and Education, spent close to 10 years getting the required credentials to be hired by AC. Conversely the Rampie, Agent or F/A got hired at 18 with a high school diploma and has 15 (or so) years of pass service time before the Pilot even gets hired. If a person gets hired into a Senior Management level, based on their Experience and Education, you can bet they are enjoying a superior pass priority than all of us.

The problem we have is Pilots are Unionized and as such all the other Unions consider us all equal. Personally I Manage a 320 Million (US) dollar Asset every time I go to work, I have no heart ache getting a better pass privilege than the guy loading the bags.
---------- ADS -----------
 
43S/172E
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:26 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by 43S/172E »

Sinister wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:39 pm
Victory wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:31 pm No offense but the pilots could go down load the bags, take the tickets, fuel the plane, and fly it to the destination. I know because I've done all that. A lot.
Correct. But that's not the issue. The airline works because everyone contributes—small cogs, big cogs—the only way it works really well is when all the cogs are functioning together, without stress.

It is arguable that some of the members' contribution is more valuable than the contribution of others. That is confirmed in the wage structure. But for benefits such as personal travel, there is no equivalent tie. Everyone on the team is, or should be, treated equally. And to keep harmony, there should be a perception of equality.
Good Afternoon Sinister:
If the company decided to award pilots the "B" level passes that is their right to do so and yes as a retiree as well I whole heartily support this non-monetary perk the group was awarded. The company gave them the perk in recognition for being the first to sign in on a ten year contract. If I was working at the time I would have enjoyed that benefit but as we are both "off" of the property we have absolutely no right to comment or whinge. For the pilot group still working if you get a perk or advantage use it as you deserve it. I am glad I left the property while the age 60 contractual agreement was in place and find retirement allows me to do things that I have really wanted to do (sorry for thread drift)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Sinister
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:53 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by Sinister »

When I first started reading the book, “In Search of Excellence” I had to put it down after getting into it, around Chapter 3 or so, because I was a young sprog looking at the great opportunities that the airline could realize by following the book’s suggestions of capitalizing on the enthusiasm and talent of all the cogs in the big wheel, getting them to work together to increase the common good, and having everyone benefit with the employer’s improved resulting success.

That was some time ago, but I had to stop reading the book because it became evident to me, watching closely how our management then operated, that most of those ideals, strategies and methodologies were quite foreign to the managers that I worked for, including the airline's senior managers.

I have a little more air under my wings now, as that was some time ago, but I still keep those ideals in my spirit. Principles, such as emphasizing our similarities rather than our differences. Working together with disparate groups and treating our multifarious groups with mutual respect, despite the differences in our professional qualifications, and indeed, in the apparent value that we each contribute to the whole.

Nevertheless, the airline is still an organism. It works, but it works only because all of the organs function together, synergistically. Saying that one organ is worth more than another, diminishing the value of some in favour of others, still doesn’t make much sense to me.

Much better to find unanimity and work together to better our efforts by focusing our collective efforts against our employer’s competitors, rather than against our fellow contributors to our own success.

That is why I find some policies, such as this controversial pass policy, dysfunctional. Policies that tend to divide us, rather than to unite us, in our collective efforts to prosper, diminish our collective strength, to our collective detriment.

For what its worth.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Stu Pidasso
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by Stu Pidasso »

Fun discussion, pretty much sums up the philosophy WestJet used on start up. Pilots wore a casual Uniform, so they would not feel they were "better" than anyone else. It was felt by the Execs that the traditional Uniform, Hat and Tunic, would go to the Pilots head. The Pilots were also required to get on their hands and knees and pick up gum wrappers on station stops. Again part of the "we're all equal" philosophy.

Now 20 some years later, they are Unionized and taking a Strike Vote.

Tough concept to obtain in our culture. Look at CUPE being delusional enough to file a Human Rights Complaint that being a F/A is work of equal value to a Pilot. Or our troubles on the Ramp, even though a large number of them are extremely (arguably over) well paid. They own and run the IAM with outrageous work rules, much to loss of the Skilled AME's.

It's a game of every dog for themselves, which is the mantra of CEO's world wide with their insane pay packets.

Cheers
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by confusedalot »

Not too sure about why some may think wearing a rather average cut uniform resembling those of bus drivers way back when would go to anyone's head. Wore a uniform on and off, can surely tell you I would be happier without one. You know, nice business suit would be fine by me.

Ramp personnel; how telling it is to see that many think that starting at close to minimum wage, and having modest pay increases according to contract, and that over many years, would not even get you into the median canadian wage, is somehow a cushy gig. Never been a ramp guy, but I know a few. The perception is inaccurate to say the least. They make nowhere near what you think they make. Suspect that working in cold weather, rain, noise, and so on, may take it's toll over time.

So if I read this thread correctly, if you have a superior job in the food chain, you deserve to have privilege. The british class system appears to be on an upswing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by altiplano »

AC ramp do alright... they know how to maximize the benefits also - and they do it on the backs of the AMEs.
---------- ADS -----------
 
skytrucker
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Wins CUPE Grievance re B2 Passes For Pilots

Post by skytrucker »

:prayer: :smt040
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”