436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

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Blue Side Up
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436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Blue Side Up » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:50 pm

Mostly narrow body FO
436 Total
50% YYZ
25% YUL and YVR

Cheers
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Sharklasers
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Sharklasers » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:07 pm

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RVR6000
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by RVR6000 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:06 pm

The ITF’s are just starting :mrgreen:
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:24 am

How long would you estimate until left seat?
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groundpilot
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by groundpilot » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:26 am

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:24 am
How long would you estimate until left seat?
With a seniority based system through and through that's a complicated question.

If you chase the bottom of a captain list, guys have been awarded A320 and EMB Captain in YYZ in under 2 years.

But being at the bottom of a giant list like the A320 has serious lifestyle repercussions. Could be years of reserve without a proper schedule and in my opinion, is unsustainable.

Interesting note from the last bid was the expansion of the YVR base. Almost a 100 new positions with the 737 coming out west and more positions on the 787. Base and upgrades should get quite a bit more junior there
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Sharklasers
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Sharklasers » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:40 am

I think we will have a better idea tonight or tomorrow when the interim drops but depending on how guys move in Yvr it could get really jr out there.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:58 am

Lifestyle would have to take a back seat for me. Couldn’t survive on an FO salary :(
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Sharklasers » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:01 am

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alkaseltzer
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by alkaseltzer » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:22 am

What would you estimate the percentage of these vacancies to be due to attrition (i.e. retirements) and due to expansion?

Q2 results out in a few more days!
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Sharklasers » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:20 pm

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Blue Side Up
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Blue Side Up » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:50 pm

Lots of movement. Most Junior left seat is around 3400 right now. Seniority list goes up to 3927+ Lots of cool seats open! YUL 330 FO is going junior, so is any right seat in YZ.
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Doug Moore
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Doug Moore » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:33 am

Removed by Doug Moore
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Victory » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:48 am

What happens if a very junior pilot bids 777 FO and gets it. They're lowest seniority on the 777 fleet. Then later someone with a higher seniority decides they want a 777 FO position. What happens to that original person at the bottom of the list? Do they get bumped off it onto another fleet?
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Rockie » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:03 am

Victory wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:48 am
What happens if a very junior pilot bids 777 FO and gets it. They're lowest seniority on the 777 fleet. Then later someone with a higher seniority decides they want a 777 FO position. What happens to that original person at the bottom of the list? Do they get bumped off it onto another fleet?
You own the position you're awarded unless you are reduced off of it, if there is no reduction nobody can swoop in and take it from you no matter how senior they are. There are also base and status protections built in, which has caused some people heartache when they later decided they deserved the left seat more than the junior person who already has it ahead of them.

The rules are very complex especially when there are reductions. I tip my hat to the management and union reps that sift it all out to the correct solution at the end. I could never do it.
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Old fella » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:54 pm

Rockie wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:03 am
Victory wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:48 am
What happens if a very junior pilot bids 777 FO and gets it. They're lowest seniority on the 777 fleet. Then later someone with a higher seniority decides they want a 777 FO position. What happens to that original person at the bottom of the list? Do they get bumped off it onto another fleet?
You own the position you're awarded unless you are reduced off of it, if there is no reduction nobody can swoop in and take it from you no matter how senior they are. There are also base and status protections built in, which has caused some people heartache when they later decided they deserved the left seat more than the junior person who already has it ahead of them.

The rules are very complex especially when there are reductions. I tip my hat to the management and union reps that sift it all out to the correct solution at the end. I could never do it.
Am I reading this right, guys/gals very new on the AC property can avail themselves of B777 FO positions. Jesus what happened to me, given the wrong few decades in life’s coin toss by the looks of it, university educated, ATPL and 7000hrs TT to wit. Never know Rockie, you may have taken a like to me.........
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Old fella » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:24 am

Old fella wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:54 pm
Rockie wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:03 am
Victory wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:48 am
What happens if a very junior pilot bids 777 FO and gets it. They're lowest seniority on the 777 fleet. Then later someone with a higher seniority decides they want a 777 FO position. What happens to that original person at the bottom of the list? Do they get bumped off it onto another fleet?
You own the position you're awarded unless you are reduced off of it, if there is no reduction nobody can swoop in and take it from you no matter how senior they are. There are also base and status protections built in, which has caused some people heartache when they later decided they deserved the left seat more than the junior person who already has it ahead of them.

The rules are very complex especially when there are reductions. I tip my hat to the management and union reps that sift it all out to the correct solution at the end. I could never do it.
Am I reading this right, guys/gals very new on the AC property can avail themselves of B777 FO positions. Jesus what happened to me, given the wrong few decades in life’s coin toss by the looks of it, university educated, ATPL and 7000hrs TT to wit. Never know Rockie, you might even take a liking to me.
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Lemon
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Lemon » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:32 am

Yes you’re reading it right. Crazy times
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Sharklasers » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:35 am

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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by FL320 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:56 pm

Am I reading this right: new FOs can fly a 777 for about 5x less than what they could earn on the same aircraft at EK; then pay a rent in YYZ (compared to free accommodation offered in DXB). Interesting times.. 🤮
I really hope airlines in Canada will have no choices but to increase their payscale; it’s ridiculous.
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Lightchop » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:20 pm

135k USD to fly a 767 in Japan. Year 5 pay is over 200k USD. As an FO.

Upgrades are apparently around 3-5 years right now. 200k + USD first year. Year 5 is around 270k USD.

Oh did I mention that includes 12 consecutive days off a month with round trip biz tickets?

Go to AC, make 250k CAD in the next 5 years. Go to AJX make 850k USD in the same amount of time. That's over a million CAD. Chance it could be more if you upgrade.

Canadians once again get fucked in the grand scheme of things
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Lt Colombo » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:28 pm

FL320 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:56 pm
Am I reading this right: new FOs can fly a 777 for about 5x less than what they could earn on the same aircraft at EK; then pay a rent in YYZ (compared to free accommodation offered in DXB). Interesting times.. 🤮
I really hope airlines in Canada will have no choices but to increase their payscale; it’s ridiculous.
I can't agree with you more unfortunately as long as there as ball lickers amongs drivers Canadian salaries aint going nowhere :smt078
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Blue Side Up
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Blue Side Up » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:40 pm

The biggest issue at AC I think is flat pay. If you bid the right seat of the 777 or 330 and get on formula right away it would be fine. Once you’re off flat pay you’re making $165,000 and working 9-12 days on reserve.. it’s not bad. The flat pay is archaic and needs to go.

I agree you can make a lot more money over seas but remember... it’ll never be the same as being home! It works for people who are flexible but if you want a normal life in Canada, AC is still the best place to be. I would not want to commute to China or the sand pit even if they are paying $500k. F**k that!
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Lightchop
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Lightchop » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:32 pm

Blue Side Up wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:40 pm
The biggest issue at AC I think is flat pay. If you bid the right seat of the 777 or 330 and get on formula right away it would be fine. Once you’re off flat pay you’re making $165,000 and working 9-12 days on reserve.. it’s not bad. The flat pay is archaic and needs to go.

I agree you can make a lot more money over seas but remember... it’ll never be the same as being home! It works for people who are flexible but if you want a normal life in Canada, AC is still the best place to be. I would not want to commute to China or the sand pit even if they are paying $500k. F**k that!
Yeah I agree. If the flat pay didn't exist, I wouldn't even be looking into things overseas. I think it's pretty disrespectful to the pilot group/industry as a whole that it even exists. It would also help if there wasn't radio silence from AC regarding the "Express Pilot Portal." Like all I keep hearing about is how many vacancies there are, and Jazz is overstaffed right now but no one (or VERY few people) are getting called for interviews. I'm not saying "GIVE ME A JOB" because no one is entitled to anything but an interview would be nice at least.

$150+k in Canada working 9-12 days would be just fine. I don't think anyone can complain about that.

The shit thing is, anyone leaving Jazz or SR as a Captain will have to take basically a $30,000+ pay cut and have a worse contract in some ways (reserve rules are a big one). I realize long term it's likely worth the temporary drop, but we shouldn't even have to look at it from that perspective because it shouldn't exist in the first place. If this ACPA/ALPA merger goes through I hope there is some push to get this removed. I'd say it's a bigger deal than the Table 1 pay at Jazz.
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Lightchop
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by Lightchop » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:33 pm

double post
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Re: 436 Vacancies Until Summer 2019

Post by groundpilot » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:37 pm

The combination of the 4 years flat pay & DC pension gives ACPA ZERO credibility.

I think anyone who was involved with that should hide themselves in a cockpit as they not only let down AC pilots but all of the Cdn Industry
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