Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

[Hangry]

No one is raising pay to attract you. They don’t need to.

[TheStig]

Air Canada doesn't need to attract the 'most' qualified pilots to be honest, airlines have no interest in raising pay to poach each others Captains. AC isn't recruiting DEC's. Pilots hired in late 2016/early 2017 may go down as the most fortunate group in Canadian aviation history, but even they will have almost 3 years, usually on-type, before upgrading on the EMJ or A320. Quick upgrades themselves are an excellent to for attracting qualified applicants.

With the new PML established at Jazz I would think that attracting qualified applicants isn't even on a top 10 list of Flight Operations biggest concerns.

Keeping Exec's Up AT Night:
1-The
2-737
3-Max
4--8
5 -An Accident
6-New Duty Regs
7-Economic Recession
8- Simulators Availability
9-A220 Introduction
10- 767 fleet replacement

[yycflyguy]

Meh. No AC executive is losing any sleep over anything. It is a present day cash cow with positive stock returns, whipped unions, long term contracts and executive bonuses partially funded by concessions made. It's good to be the King (or a Kingdom Minion)

[Johnny767]

Pilots hired in late 2016/early 2017 may go down as the most fortunate group in Canadian aviation history,


And they're still unhappy, with their "Children of the FOS" special interest group and coup attempts at every level of ACPA.

[ikarus]

The piece you don't understand Schnitzel, is the low starting pay has nothing to do with Air Canada (The Corporation) and everything to do with ACPA. The company could care less if the 4000 Pilots were all paid exactly the same, all that matters to them is the cost of the entire Pilot payroll.

It is up to the Union to decide how they want it distributed.

Well said.

[Hangry]

Pilots hired in late 2016/early 2017 may go down as the most fortunate group in Canadian aviation history,


And they're still unhappy, with their "Children of the FOS" special interest group and coup attempts at every level of ACPA.

So their concerns are not valid then? They should just be happy?

[Johnny767]

And what exactly are your big concerns Hangry? The generation that will have the best career in the four decades I have been in this business.

[PostmasterGeneral]

At a recent meeting the CEO stated that the top Captain earned 450K

Wow, how is that even possible?

That's not a stretch for top guys doing some overtime. Sunwing has guys approaching that number as well, probably Westjet too. I don't think anyone is arguing the top level pay is inadequate. It takes working on a bunch of your time off, and half of that goes away to fund whatever it is our government spends our taxes on this week.

Like mentioned above the issue is trying to attract older experienced captains with the current entry pay structure. If flight ops has issues with overall new hire experience levels the solution is simple.

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...

[Warden]

At a recent meeting the CEO stated that the top Captain earned 450K

Wow, how is that even possible?

That's not a stretch for top guys doing some overtime. Sunwing has guys approaching that number as well, probably Westjet too. I don't think anyone is arguing the top level pay is inadequate. It takes working on a bunch of your time off, and half of that goes away to fund whatever it is our government spends our taxes on this week.

Like mentioned above the issue is trying to attract older experienced captains with the current entry pay structure. If flight ops has issues with overall new hire experience levels the solution is simple.

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...

BRB going to read the new hire bios and look for someone who did a few months at Swoop, then Flair. Can't be more than one.

[PostmasterGeneral]

That's not a stretch for top guys doing some overtime. Sunwing has guys approaching that number as well, probably Westjet too. I don't think anyone is arguing the top level pay is inadequate. It takes working on a bunch of your time off, and half of that goes away to fund whatever it is our government spends our taxes on this week.

Like mentioned above the issue is trying to attract older experienced captains with the current entry pay structure. If flight ops has issues with overall new hire experience levels the solution is simple.

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...

BRB going to read the new hire bios and look for someone who did a few months at Swoop, then Flair. Can't be more than one.

Bingo was his name-o. Won’t take you long.

[Warden]

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...

BRB going to read the new hire bios and look for someone who did a few months at Swoop, then Flair. Can't be more than one.

Bingo was his name-o. Won’t take you long.

Found him.

[Jean-Pierre]

Kudos for doing what ever it take to get to AC. You made it.

['97 Tercel]

Nice work Avcanada posse..you'll get him real good!



Anywho....

[tbaylx]

At a recent meeting the CEO stated that the top Captain earned 450K

Wow, how is that even possible?

That's not a stretch for top guys doing some overtime. Sunwing has guys approaching that number as well, probably Westjet too. I don't think anyone is arguing the top level pay is inadequate. It takes working on a bunch of your time off, and half of that goes away to fund whatever it is our government spends our taxes on this week.

Like mentioned above the issue is trying to attract older experienced captains with the current entry pay structure. If flight ops has issues with overall new hire experience levels the solution is simple.

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...

Barking up the wrong tree there Sherlock. It’s says the guy who turned down a Jan course for that exact reason. The guy you’re referring to, AC is lucky to have despite the 4 year starting pay.

[shimmydampner]

Quit flying. Get a law degree. Work your way up the corporate ladder on Bay Street.
Never bitch about the amount that successful people make. It is there for you as well, you just have to do it.

Oh yeah? How many lifetimes would it take YOU to get to that position? And let's be clear that this type of "success" is very different from the type of success that it would take to start even a small air service and make a go of it. Personally, I don't view it to be much of an accomplishment when a bunch of millionaire buddies sit around a board room jerking each other off and handing out multi-million dollar bonuses for coming up with new ways to squeeze more profit out of the same system, usually at the expense of the common man's retirement.
Also, when is the last time you or any other Air Canada pilot got a 28% raise and a 250% bonus? I don't understand the instinct to defend such obvious and systemic, psychopath-level greed.

[AvconsultantON]

.

[altiplano]

Canada free market capitalist society!?

You haven't been paying attention.

Just equipment operators?

Hardly. We bear all the responsibility in a highly challenging and variable environment every day on the line. That's why we are paid.

Nice management audition though, you should copy that post and send it to Calin!

[Al Borlin]

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...

Barking up the wrong tree there Sherlock. It’s says the guy who turned down a Jan course for that exact reason. The guy you’re referring to, AC is lucky to have despite the 4 year starting pay.

I’m not sure I’m understanding this correctly. Are you suggesting that because you turned down down an AC course 6 months ago just to crawl back and take the job anyway that that allows you any kind of self-righteous moral high ground? Really sticking it to the big Corp! In case you were wondering: they didn’t notice. They didn’t cancel any flights or suffer any hardship in that time period. What they did do, however, is hire 300 other pilots who now sit above you in seniority.

AC might be lucky to have those other 300 pilots, but I think in your case it’s the other way around: You are lucky to work for a company that previously initiated a hiring ban for selfish individuals who decided to undermine westjet pilot’s scope and bargaining capital.

But like I said, I might have misunderstood.

[Warden]

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...

Barking up the wrong tree there Sherlock. It’s says the guy who turned down a Jan course for that exact reason. The guy you’re referring to, AC is lucky to have despite the 4 year starting pay.

I’m not sure I’m understanding this correctly. Are you suggesting that because you turned down down an AC course 6 months ago just to crawl back and take the job anyway that that allows you any kind of self-righteous moral high ground? Really sticking it to the big Corp! In case you were wondering: they didn’t notice. They didn’t cancel any flights or suffer any hardship in that time period. What they did do, however, is hire 300 other pilots who now sit above you in seniority.

AC might be lucky to have those other 300 pilots, but I think in your case it’s the other way around: You are lucky to work for a company that previously initiated a hiring ban for selfish individuals who decided to undermine westjet pilot’s scope and bargaining capital.

But like I said, I might have misunderstood.

He's not at AC. He's at Flair still. His name is not on the seniority list, training schedule or any new hire bio. There was another fella who had eerily similar employment history as him which I mistook as him.

[Warden]

Quit flying. Get a law degree. Work your way up the corporate ladder on Bay Street.
Never bitch about the amount that successful people make. It is there for you as well, you just have to do it

This is quite direct, but it does highlight a very realistic message of how the world works in a free-market capitalist society. I don't think it's inappropriate, I think its realistic. Ultimately, none of us became pilots to enjoy a wealthy, lavish lifestyle. Nor do people become lawyers to enjoy some lavish lifestyle of a corporate lawyer on Bay Street. We do what we do out of of passion, a wonder or some curious drive for success in the field we find ourselves interested in. It certainly takes time and effort to enjoy the perks of a career as an airline pilot and certainly a lot more time and effort to enjoy the profession of a corporate lawyer. However, I don't think thats the argument here.

When it comes to the career of an airline pilot, I think a societal shift is happening involving the type of people entering the workforce, and the evolving fields of business and technology. Business and technology fields have become the go-to for young minds entering the post secondary education age. These young minds are finding ways to become successful entrepreneurs, starting niche markets in applications, programs or software. They benefit from a free-market capitalist society, just as airline pilots do when we collect a paycheque. This paycheque we collect is usually proportional to our tenure or experience within the company we are employed with. We as pilots aren't innovating the way the airline operates. We aren't going to work everyday trying to develop programs to change the business models or refine the balance sheets. We are going to work simply to operate the equipment we are trained to operate in a safe way which is to generate revenue for the company we work for. These young minds who are becoming entrepreneurs will find a way to replace us, and it is a good objective. We as pilots cost a lot of money (thinking of some of the top-out salaries). Single pilot operations on modern airliners isn't too far off, and the payoff will be enormous for the bottom line of any airline operation. This may be a cynical prospect to some, but its a very realistic future for our career and a great many others. We aren't unique as airline pilots. We aren't special. There will always be a winner in a free-market capitalist society and there will always be a loser. Look at retail jobs, the service industry or automotive manufacturing jobs, the list goes on for jobs that are deemed "complex repetitive" like ours. Now certainly, we can be a sore loser and fall victim to this societal shift, or we can make the most of it. Live on less than we make, save money, invest in real-estate and generate multiple streams of income to sustain the lifestyle we desire. All of this is possible ONLY because we live a capitalist society.

To claim "corporate greed" is the source of all problems is ignorant. To even think that we should take a more socialist view on our society because we believe as airline pilots "aren't paid enough" is completely uneducated, misinformed and dangerous. Look at the movement of the radical left in the Canadian media, it is appalling. Capitalism allows us to use the income we get freely and however we desire. We aren't entitled to more because previous generations of airline pilots were able to live a different lifestyle. This is happening to jobs all across Canada and it isn't unique to us. Either we stay content with being a loser, or we strive to achieve our dreams as winners.