CBC News story / no-fly ban

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ogopogo
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CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by ogopogo » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:35 am

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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by L39Guy » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:29 pm

Pay up.
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snowcone
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by snowcone » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:41 pm

She screwed up so she ran to the media. Sorry. You loose all respect when you start whinning and crying to media.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by digits_ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:57 pm

Not so sure how she was supposed to know the seller was a fraud?

If it happened once, ok, you could claim she got scammed and know better. But apparently it took a year and a half for AC to get back to her to tell her the tickets were fraudulent?

It's the internet, you have to be cautious, but if I find a website that offers me products for cheap, and they actually deliver, I wouldn't be hesitant to try them out again. Especially if I have been using them for a year and a half without any trouble.

This is a logical consequence about the plethora of different rates and promotions airlines offer, and the constantly changing prices. It is very hard to know if a rate is a promo rate, regular rate, cheap rate or ridiculously fraudulent cheap.

Lastly, I'm not sure why AC is going after the lady instead of after the fraudster. A lot of AC tickets are being sold by travel agencies and shady looking but legitimate websites. How are people to know which ones are legit?
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snowcone
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by snowcone » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:07 pm

Buying something for a fraction of the regular price, online, from an unknown user who won't use his real name is an obvious sign and as an adult you hold responsibility to know better.
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digits_
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by digits_ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:22 pm

snowcone wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:07 pm
Buying something for a fraction of the regular price, online, from an unknown user who won't use his real name is an obvious sign and as an adult you hold responsibility to know better.
50% off is a promotion that happens regularly for a plethora of products.
Even normal airline tickets sometimes double for the same route depending on when you book the ticket. Getting 50% off is not that weird.

If you take a chance, and you can get on the plane with your cheap ticket, why would you not book again? It can't be such an obvious fraudulent scheme if it takes AC a year and a half to figure it out, can it?
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by ogopogo » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:46 pm

AC accepted her tix, and let her on. More than once. Not something I would ever do, but AC, you snooze, you lose.

She’ll go back to China on CX, laughing all the way.
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digits_
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by digits_ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:57 pm

snowcone wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:07 pm
Buying something for a fraction of the regular price, online, from an unknown user who won't use his real name is an obvious sign and as an adult you hold responsibility to know better.
Also, you've just described ebay, amazon and kijiji :mrgreen:
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by laserstrike » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:12 pm

digits_ wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:57 pm
Not so sure how she was supposed to know the seller was a fraud?

If it happened once, ok, you could claim she got scammed and know better. But apparently it took a year and a half for AC to get back to her to tell her the tickets were fraudulent?

It's the internet, you have to be cautious, but if I find a website that offers me products for cheap, and they actually deliver, I wouldn't be hesitant to try them out again. Especially if I have been using them for a year and a half without any trouble.

This is a logical consequence about the plethora of different rates and promotions airlines offer, and the constantly changing prices. It is very hard to know if a rate is a promo rate, regular rate, cheap rate or ridiculously fraudulent cheap.

Lastly, I'm not sure why AC is going after the lady instead of after the fraudster. A lot of AC tickets are being sold by travel agencies and shady looking but legitimate websites. How are people to know which ones are legit?
I dunno... When I go shopping for a Tesla I'm probably not going to go to WeChat and strike a deal with "Pussyslayer69."
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by digits_ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:32 pm

laserstrike wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:12 pm
digits_ wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:57 pm
...
I dunno... When I go shopping for a Tesla I'm probably not going to go to WeChat and strike a deal with "Pussyslayer69."
We are talking about a 2k plane ticket, not a 120k car, but ok, if we accept your premise, let's see where that would lead us.

1) If you pay for the Tesla, and Pussyslayer69 sends you a legit brand new Tesla for half the price, wouldn't you buy another one?
2) New Tesla's can, as far as I know, only be bought in Tesla dealerships. So yes, online sales would be weird for a new car. Online sales for airline tickets are common.
3) The lady got what she paid for. She is not a victim or a fraudster. Air Canada received a payment from a fraudulent credit card. Isn't the credit card company on the hook for that? As long as AC has the valid credit card info, it is not on them to proof that the credit card wasn't stolen. The credit card company should reimburse them for that. Unless they somehow dropped the ball and didn't do the required checks, which is quite possible since this problem is only arising after 1.5 years.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by altiplano » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:38 pm

You bought stolen goods. Unknowingly or not, it's against the law.

The fact that you got away with it a few times before you were caught does not absolve you of your negligence or you're responsibility.

I had a corporate security on a flight a while back and we spoke about CC fraud, it is rampant and always evolving. One of their largest files to deal with.

They can absolutely ban her, pattern of negligent conduct amounting to a large loss? She has other options to get to China.
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Last edited by altiplano on Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by C-GGGQ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:43 pm

digits_ wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:32 pm
laserstrike wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:12 pm
digits_ wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:57 pm
...
I dunno... When I go shopping for a Tesla I'm probably not going to go to WeChat and strike a deal with "Pussyslayer69."
We are talking about a 2k plane ticket, not a 120k car, but ok, if we accept your premise, let's see where that would lead us.

1) If you pay for the Tesla, and Pussyslayer69 sends you a legit brand new Tesla for half the price, wouldn't you buy another one?
2) New Tesla's can, as far as I know, only be bought in Tesla dealerships. So yes, online sales would be weird for a new car. Online sales for airline tickets are common.
3) The lady got what she paid for. She is not a victim or a fraudster. Air Canada received a payment from a fraudulent credit card. Isn't the credit card company on the hook for that? As long as AC has the valid credit card info, it is not on them to proof that the credit card wasn't stolen. The credit card company should reimburse them for that. Unless they somehow dropped the ball and didn't do the required checks, which is quite possible since this problem is only arising after 1.5 years.
Actually except in a few rare cases Tesla does not have dealerships, and only takes online orders. They have run afoul of several states laws as such and are not allowed to sell in those states as they require physical dealerships.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by digits_ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:54 pm

altiplano wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:38 pm
You bought stolen goods. Unknowingly or not, it's against the law.

The fact that you got away with it a few times before you were caught does not absolve you of your negligence or you're responsibility.

I had a corporate security on a flight a while back and we spoke about CC fraud, it is rampant and always evolving. One of their largest files to deal with.

They can absolutely ban her, pattern of negligent conduct amounting to a large loss? She has other options to get to China.
Why would she be banned? It's AC that accepted the fraudlent credit card.

Are goods bought with a stolen credit card also stolen goods? Strictly legally speaking.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by digits_ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:56 pm

C-GGGQ wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:43 pm
Actually except in a few rare cases Tesla does not have dealerships, and only takes online orders. They have run afoul of several states laws as such and are not allowed to sell in those states as they require physical dealerships.
Interesting. I stand corrected.

I am assuming you can only buy them on the one official tesla website though?
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by C-GGGQ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:17 pm

Yes exactly. Unless you were trying to buy used of course. Problem with so many "reseller" sites for tickets and travel etc.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by altiplano » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:58 pm

digits_ wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:54 pm
altiplano wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:38 pm
You bought stolen goods. Unknowingly or not, it's against the law.

The fact that you got away with it a few times before you were caught does not absolve you of your negligence or you're responsibility.

I had a corporate security on a flight a while back and we spoke about CC fraud, it is rampant and always evolving. One of their largest files to deal with.

They can absolutely ban her, pattern of negligent conduct amounting to a large loss? She has other options to get to China.
Why would she be banned? It's AC that accepted the fraudlent credit card.

Are goods bought with a stolen credit card also stolen goods? Strictly legally speaking.
Of course they have the right to ban her. No company can be expected to do business with a party if they were involved in multiple previous activities that ripped the company off.

Stolen cards get accepted all the time and subsequently revoked after the charge gets reported weeks, even months later.

Yes, goods bought fraudulently and resold are still stolen.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by mbav8r » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:08 pm

Access to employee discounts doesn’t scream run away? Maybe she knew, maybe she didn’t how can she prove it, either way if you buy something that is stolen without doing due diligence, you would be charged for possession of stolen goods. I’d be careful if I were her, AC could put pressure on authorities to charge her with fraud, she’ll be needing a different type of lawyer in that case.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by YYCAME » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:18 pm

Seems more like a case of credit card liability being passed onto the person least able to protect against it. Only the credit card companies are in a position to deny payments, improve security, and regulate that portion of the market right now. Equifax's security breach last year was a dumpster fire of personal financial information and there was pretty much zero consequences. It's just a cost issue and as long as the credit card companies don't feel it is worth their time to check on large payments and ask for better verification then isn't anything anyone else can do about it. Except ask our government to better regulate the financial industry in the same way we regulate currency to prevent counterfeits from ruining the system.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by digits_ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:19 pm

altiplano wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:58 pm

Of course they have the right to ban her. No company can be expected to do business with a party if they were involved in multiple previous activities that ripped the company off.

Stolen cards get accepted all the time and subsequently revoked after the charge gets reported weeks, even months later.
They should ban the fraudster, not necessarily the customer who bought a valid ticket with her own valid credit card.

I would understand all these replies here if she was the one using stolen credit cards. But she wasn't.
altiplano wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:58 pm
Yes, goods bought fraudulently and resold are still stolen.
Is that a fact or your opinion? I admit it sounds logical, but legally that isn't always the case.
mbav8r wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:08 pm
Access to employee discounts doesn’t scream run away? Maybe she knew, maybe she didn’t how can she prove it, either way if you buy something that is stolen without doing due diligence, you would be charged for possession of stolen goods. I’d be careful if I were her, AC could put pressure on authorities to charge her with fraud, she’ll be needing a different type of lawyer in that case.
"Employee pricing is back on! You pay what we pay!"

Big companies do it, so no, I'm not surprised if people fall for that for airline tickets.

If airlines allow/encourage everyone to sell their tickets, it's on them to take responsibility if fraudlent people resell their tickets. How many legitimate business haven't you seen operating out of a shady shack in some mall or dark alley in busy cities? What's the difference with an app or online sale from a new source?

And once again: she got what she paid for! Literally.
If she got ripped off and never got the tickets after one transaction, then sure, call her stupid, blame her, etc. But she bought tickets 3 times and got to use them. Why wouldn't she buy at a discount store?

The way airline ticketing and pricing is set up, I'm surprised stuff like this doesn't happen more often.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by digits_ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:19 pm

YYCAME wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:18 pm
Seems more like a case of credit card liability being passed onto the person least able to protect against it. Only the credit card companies are in a position to deny payments, improve security, and regulate that portion of the market right now. Equifax's security breach last year was a dumpster fire of personal financial information and there was pretty much zero consequences. It's just a cost issue and as long as the credit card companies don't feel it is worth their time to check on large payments and ask for better verification then isn't anything anyone else can do about it. Except ask our government to better regulate the financial industry in the same way we regulate currency to prevent counterfeits from ruining the system.
Agreed!
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by PostmasterGeneral » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:05 pm

Absolutely they should ban her. Flying is a privilege not a right, Gabor. I would think AC can ban whomever they want to.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by mbav8r » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:05 pm

digits_ wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:19 pm
[quote=altiplano post_id=<a href="tel:1080701">1080701</a> time=<a href="tel:1559692721">1559692721</a> user_id=3052]

Of course they have the right to ban her. No company can be expected to do business with a party if they were involved in multiple previous activities that ripped the company off.

Stolen cards get accepted all the time and subsequently revoked after the charge gets reported weeks, even months later.
They should ban the fraudster, not necessarily the customer who bought a valid ticket with her own valid credit card.

I would understand all these replies here if she was the one using stolen credit cards. But she wasn't.

[quote=altiplano post_id=<a href="tel:1080701">1080701</a> time=<a href="tel:1559692721">1559692721</a> user_id=3052]
Yes, goods bought fraudulently and resold are still stolen.
[/quote]

Is that a fact or your opinion? I admit it sounds logical, but legally that isn't always the case.

[quote=mbav8r post_id=<a href="tel:1080711">1080711</a> time=<a href="tel:1559696900">1559696900</a> user_id=8159]
Access to employee discounts doesn’t scream run away? Maybe she knew, maybe she didn’t how can she prove it, either way if you buy something that is stolen without doing due diligence, you would be charged for possession of stolen goods. I’d be careful if I were her, AC could put pressure on authorities to charge her with fraud, she’ll be needing a different type of lawyer in that case.
[/quote]

"Employee pricing is back on! You pay what we pay!"

Big companies do it, so no, I'm not surprised if people fall for that for airline tickets.

If airlines allow/encourage everyone to sell their tickets, it's on them to take responsibility if fraudlent people resell their tickets. How many legitimate business haven't you seen operating out of a shady shack in some mall or dark alley in busy cities? What's the difference with an app or online sale from a new source?

And once again: she got what she paid for! Literally.
If she got ripped off and never got the tickets after one transaction, then sure, call her stupid, blame her, etc. But she bought tickets 3 times and got to use them. Why wouldn't she buy at a discount store?

The way airline ticketing and pricing is set up, I'm surprised stuff like this doesn't happen more often.
[/quote]
First, it doesn’t say she used a credit card to buy these tickets, the story stated she tried to get her money back, so I’m going to assume she paid by another method. I would think if she used a credit card finding Captain cool would be easier.
Also, if GM says you pay what we pay, I’m going to go to GM and give them my money, not Joe blow offering me a coupon to get the discount.
I can’t speak for other airlines but Air Canada employees are not allowed to sell their tickets, in fact they can bring friends on their employee travel with the stipulation that they travel with them, selling them would at the very least cause a loss of employee travel privileges but possibly loss of employment.
If something seems to good to be true than you should probably do your homework, I am very curious what type of ticket this character was peddling, sounds like he has access to id50s but under who’s profile?
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by Duke Point » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:10 pm

PostmasterGeneral wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:05 pm
Absolutely they should ban her. Flying is a privilege not a right, Gabor. I would think AC can ban whomever they want to.
100%

Air Canada is a private enterprise.

They can, and should be able to ban anyone they choose if flying fraudulently. Fly on someone else.

Stoopid doesn't make one right. Thanks once again to our national broadcaster for painting this with the red "CBC brush".

Many of us are sick of always looking like the bad guy.

DP.
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by Blueontop » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:01 am

If captaincooll was paying for the tickets with a stolen credit card then doesn’t that mean AC isn’t out any money at all? And in fact simply sold the seats at full price?? Perhaps I am missing something?..
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Re: CBC News story / no-fly ban

Post by pianokeys » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:38 am

It seems to me there is more to this story that what CBC told us.

If the hairs dont stand up on the back of your neck from wording like "employee discount" or "50% off airline tickets" or the fact you found this "service" on a chat app, then you deserve to get ripped off for the rest of your life because you are the true definition of a sucker. So either shes not telling the whole truth, or shes an unintelligent sucker.
Duke Point wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:10 pm
Many of us are sick of always looking like the bad guy.
Yeah CBC needs to @#$! off. That nerd Gabor also needs to @#$! off. I cant stand how quick CBC is to bash AC, its frustrating. And they continue to do it even after being caught about purposefully spinning a negative bias towards AC. No wonder why Trump gains traction playing the "fake news" card when you have shit, sensationalist journalism like that.
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Last edited by pianokeys on Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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