Who will bid the A220?

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Puffpuffpass
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Who will bid the A220?

Post by Puffpuffpass » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:42 am

Just trying to get a feel for what the Seniority is gonna look like on the 220, seems like a lot of people are interested, but who will ultimately make the move....it will be the lowest paid out of the fleet, yet definitely the highest tech new piece of kit....many have already used the NB bid for the 37 just curious as to what others think, or plan to do.

I have no moves left, so I’m staying put.
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Goldencondor
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by Goldencondor » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:55 am

The smartest answer i heard so far is that their will be a split. Top 50% senior bottom 50% junior with a sizable gap that between both groups. The course rights created this situation whereas it was built with some sort of linearity to career progression, but reality is we all go thru life events that might not follow the FNB FWB CNB CWB path. So for most of the guys that used their CNB is the A220 worth the unrestricted? Only once bases and routes are reveiled that someone can make a decision. Plus the captains that get reduced of the EMB might use the move for that.
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PMLPilot
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by PMLPilot » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:44 am

This weeks new hire hire class at Transat will bid it right into the top Captain spot
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:10 am

When the 737 gets reduced some of those guys will go and some of the 320 or LCC guys they bump will go.
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Rudy
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by Rudy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:35 am

altiplano wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:10 am
When the 737 gets reduced some of those guys will go and some of the 320 or LCC guys they bump will go.
Do you mean 767 or are you expecting the MAX is on it's way out?
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ZBBYLW
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ZBBYLW » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:01 am

Going to be a mixed bag... some senior EMB guys for sure... lots of junior ish NB C are interested. Id take the pay cut it does <12 days of work reliably at what ever seniority % I can hold... otherwise just enjoy rouge for now.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:55 am

Rudy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:35 am
altiplano wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:10 am
When the 737 gets reduced some of those guys will go and some of the 320 or LCC guys they bump will go.
Do you mean 767 or are you expecting the MAX is on it's way out?
Yeah 737.

Partly a joke, but partly serious, it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

This problem is dragging on and not even close to a resolution yet. They don't want to pay guys to stay home forever, and the pressure is building to make a move.

Had they just moved crews right away they'd all be flying right now, or finishing courses, and making, not costing, the company money. People could have returned to the 737 on short courses when the go ahead came.

It's like that maintenance delay, 20 minutes turns into an hour, then 2, 3... then you duty out and cancel the flight. I'd suggest we're passing the 3 hour delay and we should have scrubbed it in the beginning.
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islandguy
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by islandguy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:32 pm

Yeah 737.

Partly a joke, but partly serious, it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

This problem is dragging on and not even close to a resolution yet. They don't want to pay guys to stay home forever, and the pressure is building to make a move.

Had they just moved crews right away they'd all be flying right now, or finishing courses, and making, not costing, the company money. People could have returned to the 737 on short courses when the go ahead came.

It's like that maintenance delay, 20 minutes turns into an hour, then 2, 3... then you duty out and cancel the flight. I'd suggest we're passing the 3 hour delay and we should have scrubbed it in the beginning.
I'm not sure Boeing offers a very generous return policy...and Craigslisting a fleet that's not flying anywhere in the world would be giving up billions to save millions.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:57 pm

islandguy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:32 pm
Yeah 737.

Partly a joke, but partly serious, it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

This problem is dragging on and not even close to a resolution yet. They don't want to pay guys to stay home forever, and the pressure is building to make a move.

Had they just moved crews right away they'd all be flying right now, or finishing courses, and making, not costing, the company money. People could have returned to the 737 on short courses when the go ahead came.

It's like that maintenance delay, 20 minutes turns into an hour, then 2, 3... then you duty out and cancel the flight. I'd suggest we're passing the 3 hour delay and we should have scrubbed it in the beginning.
I'm not sure Boeing offers a very generous return policy...and Craigslisting a fleet that's not flying anywhere in the world would be giving up billions to save millions.
I'm not saying the 737 is going. (I'm not saying it isn't either though)

But the C-series will start arriving before the 737 will be back flying. AC will be wondering why they are paying all these guys when it's going to take months to get them back on the line even after the ungrounding anyway.

So for example, YYZ -50 737CA +50 CS300CA. Category will be closed, most guys will want to keep the left seat, maybe they'll realize be senior, get a free course, and an RIR isn't a bad deal. Some will bump on the bus, some will go CS.
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by pianokeys » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:05 am

altiplano wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:57 pm

I'm not saying the 737 is going. (I'm not saying it isn't either though)
At least if a fella bid the A220 they would be flying instead of sitting at home watching TV.

I wonder if there will be any litigation from this? 25 airplanes grounded for months because of a design fault is not cheap on the operator. At least with other types which were grounded they were fixed and flying in short time. If we had 10 airplanes I could see the justification for dumping them on Craigslist.
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TheStig
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by TheStig » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:31 am

Problem is AC needs to renew its NB fleet, Volkswagon was forced to buyback its defective TDI cars, but owners were easily able to go pick up new cars. At a minimum Air Canada is stuck with its current 24 737-8's for the foreseeable future. Airbus and Boeing have a comfortable duopoly in the market and neither wants to invest in clean sheet designs. Both seemed content to rack up MAX/NEO orders for the next decade. Airlines are no doubt using this situation as leverage to drive prices down, Air Canada for example, for 787-10 or 777-9 orders.

Should be interesting to see what happens at the Paris Airshow next week, the speculation before the MAX grounding was that Boeing would launch it Middle-of-the-Market airliner. However, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone (Airlines and Manufacturers) sat on their hands to minimize exposure with so much uncertainty.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by JoeyBarton » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:42 pm

Altiplano how do you explain the 8 737 new hire spots for mid-july?
Also how is this possible given the lists on the 737 are full on the last bid? Can they assign new hires to positions not even available for those on the property to bid on?
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danield
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by danield » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:44 pm

JoeyBarton wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:42 pm
Altiplano how do you explain the 8 737 new hire spots for mid-july?
Also how is this possible given the lists on the 737 are full on the last bid? Can they assign new hires to positions not even available for those on the property to bid on?
They sure can. Happened last year with the 767RP position.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:11 pm

I don't need to explain anything. As I said, half joking, thinking out loud, could go one way could go another... wouldn't surprise me either way.

We are already delaying most of the 737s that were to come this year when the return to service happens. Only starting with the 24 we had, and a metered delivery of only 6 of the other 12 that were supposed to come in Q2.

Wonder when we'll take the other 6? No doubt others could/will get delayed/changed.

Look how fast the Airbus order turned into 737s... overnight... I wonder what legal advice on the damages and moving forward or reducing the order AC is getting?

One thing about AC is as much as it's a big machine in motion, some things can change quickly.

Those training reports are one... Don't mean much until someone is in the sim and even then AC will pull you out as required... particularly a new hire.

Also with all the hiring, other fleets' ability to train is likely maxed out... maybe they figure they'll fit a couple 737 courses in since there isn't anywhere else to put people for training. See if the timing works out for line training with a fall return to service guess?

As far as all the peons in flight ops know, it's hire pilots, manage the training, fill the roster, this is the fleet plan, until it isn't anymore.

The peons in the office only know what's changing slightly before the peons on the line...
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by pilotbzh » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:04 am

I'm told other courses are full, 8 new hires on the 737 because of it, and flight ops expecting to have all 30 planes up flying as soon as they will be able to (end of the year)
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by fruitloops » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:37 pm

Anyone have any idea on how many A220's and what the timeline for introducing these will be for the rest of this year and next?
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islandguy
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by islandguy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:31 pm

fruitloops wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:37 pm
Anyone have any idea on how many A220's and what the timeline for introducing these will be for the rest of this year and next?
I'm working from memory so I can stand to be corrected, but 1 this year, 14 next year (presumably staggered at one or so a month), 45 total with options for a bunch more. Your guess is as good as mine on the options.
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BTD
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by BTD » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:53 pm

Check out the Air Canada website. Then go to investor relations, and quarterly results, look up Q2 Management Discussion and Analysis. There is a fleet section in there that provides conservative fleet plans. It is included in each quarterly and annual report. Although things change, it has the most factual info available. And it is public.
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Dizzy D
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by Dizzy D » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:04 am

D363E341-4029-43C6-9739-FD998DACFF6D.jpeg
D363E341-4029-43C6-9739-FD998DACFF6D.jpeg (338.79 KiB) Viewed 3377 times
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fruitloops
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by fruitloops » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:39 pm

Has anyone heard/calculated out what the Captain pay on the A220 will be? With weight the biggest calc factor.... somewhere between the 737 Max and EMJ.

EMJ
Day 149 day / 168 night
737
Day 180 day / 206/night

A220

165 day / 185 night ??
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Warden
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by Warden » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:20 pm

I calculated it a while back based on the info posted in the contract and on the ACPA site. Should be around...

Year 1 $165.82 day, $189.04 night
Year 12 $186.64 day, $209.86 night
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by '97 Tercel » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:38 pm

U.S pilots would laugh at that...
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:06 am

A-220 rates Effective April 1/19

Day / Night

Year 1 169.5599 / 193.2443

Year 12 191.2099 / 214.8943
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by Inverted2 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:48 am

You guys get paid more to fly at night? :roll:
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dashtrash1
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by dashtrash1 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:04 am

Some people are afraid of the dark :wink:
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