Who will bid the A220?

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flyingcanuck
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by flyingcanuck » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:07 pm

Inverted2 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:48 am
You guys get paid more to fly at night? :roll:
I could see a little increase for fatigue or whatever, but 20-30 difference?? That's wild. :shock:
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RVR6000
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by RVR6000 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:21 pm

'97 Tercel wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:38 pm
U.S pilots would laugh at that...
And a Swoop pilot will do it for half the amount.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:27 pm

Fucking A we get paid more to fly at night.
And we get paid more premium to fly overseas.
And we get Nav pay.
And we get a blended rate when we do training or collect a guarantee, 1/2 day/night.

Why don't you? :roll:
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ant_321 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:31 pm

altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:27 pm
Fucking A we get paid more to fly at night.
And we get paid more premium to fly overseas.
And we get Nav pay.
And we get a blended rate when we do training or collect a guarantee, 1/2 day/night.

Why don't you? :roll:
What is the Nav pay?
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:33 pm

Captain nav-aid pay 11.1412
FO nav-aid pay 5.5701
RP nav-aid pay 3.3416
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ant_321
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ant_321 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:36 pm

altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:33 pm
Captain nav-aid pay 11.1412
FO nav-aid pay 5.5701
RP nav-aid pay 3.3416
No I mean how do you get it.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:46 pm

Nav pay is paid when operating a NB aircraft on any flight operation that departs and/or arrives outside of Canada, the United States (excluding Hawaii), Mexico, the Bahamas and the Territorial Collectivity of Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon, or other mutually agreed routes.

It is also paid in monthly guarantees varying, depending on type.
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ant_321
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ant_321 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:48 pm

altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:46 pm
Nav pay is paid when operating a NB aircraft on any flight operation that departs and/or arrives outside of Canada, the United States (excluding Hawaii), Mexico, the Bahamas and the Territorial Collectivity of Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon, or other mutually agreed routes.

It is also paid in monthly guarantees varying, depending on type.
Interesting. They like to make things complicated.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:49 pm

Is that really complicated?
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ant_321
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ant_321 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:58 pm

altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:49 pm
Is that really complicated?
Way more complicated than it needs to be. Why not pay a flat hourly rate like everyone else?
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:20 pm

Who's everyone else?
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ant_321
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ant_321 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:50 pm

Every other airline in Canada as far as I know.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:33 pm

And they're everyone else?

Delta, United, American, Alaskan, Hawaiian, Jetblue... even Spirit have various international pay premiums.

Maybe your "everyone else" are missing out?
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ant_321
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ant_321 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:39 am

altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:33 pm
And they're everyone else?

Delta, United, American, Alaskan, Hawaiian, Jetblue... even Spirit have various international pay premiums.

Maybe your "everyone else" are missing out?
I’m certainly not against anyone making extra cash but to me it seems like a weird way to make it. Is following the magenta line to Cancun really any different than following it to Punta Cana?
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by Daniel Cooper » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:05 am

It's likely a throw back from when pilots actually navigated. But it still makes sense today since oceanic flights have extra duties and navigation checks. More work more pay makes sense to me.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:15 am

I'd be happy to fly in daylight the rest of my career. I wish I got paid more to work odd hours at night.

It takes quite a toll getting up at 4am, or working till 1am. Times that the body naturally wants to sleep. I'm envious of those who get additional renumeration for that.
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Chinaflyer
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by Chinaflyer » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:32 am

Some airlines in China pay captains extra to sign the tech log in stations where there aren’t company engineers getting paid to do it. One of my previous companies used to pay an allowance for laundry. I know people in non aviation jobs in Toronto that get an allowance for using the 407 to get to work. Whatever you can negotiate I guess...
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sanjet
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by sanjet » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:03 am

Wait until you have to do international ops/night flying on a regular basis.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:12 am

ant_321 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:39 am
altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:33 pm
And they're everyone else?

Delta, United, American, Alaskan, Hawaiian, Jetblue... even Spirit have various international pay premiums.

Maybe your "everyone else" are missing out?
I’m certainly not against anyone making extra cash but to me it seems like a weird way to make it. Is following the magenta line to Cancun really any different than following it to Punta Cana?
IMO Mexico should be included, but as someone else mentioned, it's what you negotiate...

And sure, Punta Cana is different than Cancun, maybe you're out in WATRS, no radar, over water, patchy comms, HF bullshit... whatever, international flying presents additional challenges and risks, and there are many more variables than doing a Calgary turn... over the Atlantic, to Hawaii, to South America, Caribbean... and in a NB... I want to get paid more, don't you?
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ant_321
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ant_321 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:33 am

altiplano wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:12 am
ant_321 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:39 am
altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:33 pm
And they're everyone else?

Delta, United, American, Alaskan, Hawaiian, Jetblue... even Spirit have various international pay premiums.

Maybe your "everyone else" are missing out?
I’m certainly not against anyone making extra cash but to me it seems like a weird way to make it. Is following the magenta line to Cancun really any different than following it to Punta Cana?
IMO Mexico should be included, but as someone else mentioned, it's what you negotiate...

And sure, Punta Cana is different than Cancun, maybe you're out in WATRS, no radar, over water, patchy comms, HF bullshit... whatever, international flying presents additional challenges and risks, and there are many more variables than doing a Calgary turn... over the Atlantic, to Hawaii, to South America, Caribbean... and in a NB... I want to get paid more, don't you?
I always want to get paid more and don’t blame you guys for trying to scrape together a few extra bucks out of the contract. I just find the concept strange. I would argue a YUL-LGA-YUL is much more challenging than a YYZ-HAV.
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rudder
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by rudder » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:57 am

Or perhaps add the Nav/Night/Overseas premiums to the Day rate and make that the published hourly rate for all flying. That would represent a start towards pay rates approaching those paid in the US (exchange rate factor excluded).

Put it on the shopping list for the upcoming Transat discussions. That and the LCC/new-hire pay rates.
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:09 pm

Yeah, that would be great, I'm sure the corporation will be happy to do it... remember most of those US airlines have international override and other premiums also...

With Nav and Overseas premium on a 737 or 320 doing all overseas flying it adds up quickly.

Likewise, if I'm giving up nights of sleep, I'm happy to be paid a premium to do it... some guys bid it for that reason, freeing up daytime flying for others who would be stuck with red-eyes otherwise...

Also I think the roots of the Nav pay premium go way back... 80 year old contract and all... I might have been told before, but I can't recall exactly...
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:13 pm

LGA once you've done it a few times is not so much challenging as it is frustrating...
"How long from now was that slot time again? So much for making it back for dinner..."
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ogopogo
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by ogopogo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:44 pm

altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:33 pm
Captain nav-aid pay 11.1412
FO nav-aid pay 5.5701
RP nav-aid pay 3.3416
There are RPs on NB aircraft?
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altiplano
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Re: Who will bid the A220?

Post by altiplano » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:16 pm

ogopogo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:44 pm
altiplano wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:33 pm
Captain nav-aid pay 11.1412
FO nav-aid pay 5.5701
RP nav-aid pay 3.3416
There are RPs on NB aircraft?
I suppose there could be if they wanted...

What a waste of a position IMO.
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