Interim bid out
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Re: Interim bid out
If Air Canada wants to fix its crewing problem (and help the profession in the process), all it is has to do is to cancel the 4 year probationary pay. How can one be on probation for 4 long years?! Not even at NASA!!
Re: Interim bid out
So says the kool aid addict that supports 320 wages to fly 87’s in the name of competition.
Re: Interim bid out
What crewing problem would that be? Air Canada doesn’t see a problem as they don’t care who flies which airplane. They will simply fill the positions with new hires. It’s been done before.
As for probation, while I agree that’s it’s ridiculous, there is no shortage of pilots applying so why should they change it? Having low paid pilots in traditionally high paying positions actually gives them an advantage over the competition.
This is a business. A/C is here to make money, period. They are not here to improve the piloting profession. That job falls to the pilots. The sooner we start figuring that out the better off we’ll be.
Re: Interim bid out
They don’t have a crewing problem. They could pay less for new hires and still have pilots jumping over each other for a job. They have Jazz covered too with the 60% agreement.
Let’s Go Brandon
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Re: Interim bid out
If you don’t like it here why don’t you just leave? Where else would you rather go? I’d move to Australia but that’s about it. There’s a reason Canada has so many immigrants. It’s a great place to be. Not sure what more you could want. Most Canadians I know working at AC are pretty damn happy.JohnnyHotRocks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:43 amBwahahahahahahaha good one!mixturerich wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:24 pmNot all about pay though, you have to think about working conditions, benefits, stability, cost of living, and living in Canada which is arguably one of the best if not the best country in the world.
Re: Interim bid out
At least this part is honest. Some people tend to think their "sugar" don't stink!bcflyer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:50 pm ...
As for probation, while I agree that’s it’s ridiculous, there is no shortage of pilots applying so why should they change it? Having low paid pilots in traditionally high paying positions actually gives them an advantage over the competition.
This is a business. A/C is here to make money, period. They are not here to improve the piloting profession. That job falls to the pilots. The sooner we start figuring that out the better off we’ll be.
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Re: Interim bid out
You are confusing your facts.
It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.
Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.
But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.
Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage
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Re: Interim bid out
ACPA should be kicking up a shit storm. WB FOs on flat pay is a lot of lost dues revenue.
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Re: Interim bid out
Canada has the lowest paid WB FOs in the world. The system is broken. We need to look in the mirror and stop defending it.groundpilot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:43 pmYou are confusing your facts.
It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.
Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.
But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.
Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage
- Old fella
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Re: Interim bid out
Not that I know very much about this issue,mind you but I don’t ever remember AC having difficulties filling pilot seats despite the initial wage structure. From what I have been reading here pilots at WJ, Encore, Swoop, Porter , Expats et al seem to think AC is a good bet. Not to mention AC’s own source of flight crew from Jazz and the lot. However, I stand to be corrected.
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Re: Interim bid out
Norwegian pays their CAPTAINS... 7490 GBP per month.JohnnyHotRocks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:52 amCanada has the lowest paid WB FOs in the world. The system is broken. We need to look in the mirror and stop defending it.groundpilot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:43 pmYou are confusing your facts.
It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.
Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.
But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.
Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage
That's 12 168.96 CAD a month. They also get zero overtime.
Emirates guys get paid nicely... They also only get paid for time in the seat... Bunk time doesn't count.
The system sucks right now but at least I'm not a second class citizen in a foreign country, getting worked to death, for a little more money.
The other problem that should be addressed is keeping more of what I make. #sendtrudeauhome
- schnitzel2k3
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Re: Interim bid out
I like how he justified flat pay because it matches WJ. WJ is a LCC and should not be the beacon of guidance when it comes to working conditions.JohnnyHotRocks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:52 amCanada has the lowest paid WB FOs in the world. The system is broken. We need to look in the mirror and stop defending it.groundpilot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:43 pmYou are confusing your facts.
It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.
Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.
But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.
Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage
As has been discussed many times over, those captain bids are out there for a reason, and it's not because they are attractive. They are sucker holes.
S.
- schnitzel2k3
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Re: Interim bid out
No, they certainly don't have trouble filling seats. Must be nice being the only legacy carrier within a country and also be provided with government protections so that they can artificially define a wage structure that suppresses wage growth over an entire industry.Old fella wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:33 am Not that I know very much about this issue,mind you but I don’t ever remember AC having difficulties filling pilot seats despite the initial wage structure. From what I have been reading here pilots at WJ, Encore, Swoop, Porter , Expats et al seem to think AC is a good bet. Not to mention AC’s own source of flight crew from Jazz and the lot. However, I stand to be corrected.
Then have said pilots defend it with the fact that the only 2 good things during their careers are retirement from AC and flight benies in the offseason during said retirement.
S.
Last edited by schnitzel2k3 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Interim bid out
Your assertions are incorrect.groundpilot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:43 pmYou are confusing your facts.
It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.
Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.
But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.
Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage
First Air Canada increased their flat probationary pay period from 0ne to four years, and AFTER WestJet and Transat introduced lower pay for the first TWO years. WestJet's (and Transat's) lower introductory pay which is for two years and not four years came in response to Air Canada's four year lower pay.
At any rate, to each their own. If there are pilots that are willing to take these low-paying jobs (often with a pay-cut) at Air Canada, at the very least don't criticize others for taking other jobs that may not be paying as high as you would like, but they are still much higher pay than Air Canada's first 4 years pay, because that would be... well hypocritical!
Re: Interim bid out
Everybody's different. I get worn out just thinking about doing more than one sector a day. How many do you do in a typical NB pairing?
Re: Interim bid out
Agreed everyone is different.
So is junior ML WB CA just as bad? Same sort of sched, right?
Fact is that it's all hard work, but not as bad as it was, 767 got pretty bad a couple years ago, but has improved.
Junior WB ML blocks are doing 17 or 18 days a month at most, mostly afternoon or evening reports and morning or early afternoon check outs... sure, more than 16 days, but long layovers, 4 or 5 pairings, 8 to 10 legs a month, maybe less, maybe some of it augmented ain't all bad... easier for some than 6am home base reports and clearing customs twice a day for a short airport layover and back at it... just to finish your pairing on your last "day" at 01:45... because your "day off" starts at 02:00.
Re: Interim bid out
Want to fix the system bring up the pay-scales and the overall compensation package at Westjet, (Transat) and Sunwing within 5% of what AC offers. Not counting overseas per diems when you’re living in Europe for 6 months or overtime draft pay.JohnnyHotRocks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:52 amCanada has the lowest paid WB FOs in the world. The system is broken. We need to look in the mirror and stop defending it.groundpilot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:43 pmYou are confusing your facts.
It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.
Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.
But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.
Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage
Simply on a block hour basis, with year of service carrying through with an upgrade. Have this within 5% of what AC offers then we have a chance. Otherwise forget it.
In US what Southwest pays is comparable to the legacy majors. We’ve got 737 operators paying $110/hr, 50% of what AC pays and you expect us to get higher wages.
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Re: Interim bid out
IT IS NOT 4 YEARS PROBATIONARY. IT IS 1 YEAR. I REPEAT- 1 YEAR
It is 4 years flat pay which will pay you the same at WJ. Yeah, flat sucks. It's insane and embarrassing
Except you can escape by bidding Captain or RP (good schedule)
I'm at year 3 and could be 60% from the top on the 737 in yyz and above 80% in YVR in the left seat. Over $200k a year. Will the schedule be amazing? No. Will I have to work - yes. That's life.
It is 4 years flat pay which will pay you the same at WJ. Yeah, flat sucks. It's insane and embarrassing
Except you can escape by bidding Captain or RP (good schedule)
I'm at year 3 and could be 60% from the top on the 737 in yyz and above 80% in YVR in the left seat. Over $200k a year. Will the schedule be amazing? No. Will I have to work - yes. That's life.
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Re: Interim bid out
AC is apparently top of the game in Canada, why are we referring to inferior carriers (by business model) as examples needed to increase your compensation package?RVR6000 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:20 amWant to fix the system bring up the pay-scales and the overall compensation package at Westjet, (Transat) and Sunwing within 5% of what AC offers. Not counting overseas per diems when you’re living in Europe for 6 months or overtime draft pay.JohnnyHotRocks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:52 amCanada has the lowest paid WB FOs in the world. The system is broken. We need to look in the mirror and stop defending it.groundpilot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:43 pm
You are confusing your facts.
It is a 4 years flat pay system which matches WJ pay. Probation is 1 year.
Yes, you would be a low paid wide body FO.
But at least we have the RP option and lots of narrowbody captain positions available which WJ does not.
Oh plus we have a pension, a true global network to travel on, a more defined future, more than 4 787s, retirements, and we dont pick up garbage
Simply on a block hour basis, with year of service carrying through with an upgrade. Have this within 5% of what AC offers then we have a chance. Otherwise forget it.
In US what Southwest pays is comparable to the legacy majors. We’ve got 737 operators paying $110/hr, 50% of what AC pays and you expect us to get higher wages.
The closest examples of fleet and scope are south of the border, and ACs current package doesn't hold a candle to theirs.
S.