Socialized Bidding (Rouge)

[altiplano]

Yeah, forgot that one, thanks...

[sstaurus]

Personally I think you'd be crazy to want to lose socialized bidding at Rouge. When do those critical holidays and days off you need matter the most; when you're young, possibly with a young family, and can enjoy it? Or when you're too old and have less commitments anyway? I find it pretty easy to get the days and schedule you want at WJ. I've been in a seniority system before, just because things are moving now... I certainly don't want to have to wait until my knees are bad and I'm nearly divorced to get a sweet sched. Just IMO... I guess it's all what you're used to.

[rudder]

Any migration towards or away from a seniority based bidding system to replace an existing bidding system is a zero sum game. Some will win. And some will lose.

It is difficult to impossible to change status quo without acknowledging this reality.

[iflyroads]

Some will win. And some will lose.

And some are bound to singggg the blueees

(Sorry couldn't resist)

[PostmasterGeneral]

We already have Reserve in our contract. Tear up the division and LOU74 and there you go.

The corporation wants to have their cake and eat it too.

But no crisis will go unwasted, just wait to hear how bad they have it in 2020 with the new res system, new duty rules, B737 relaunch, A220 introduction, the transat buy, the 800 new hires and the training crisis.

It's not our job to fix their problems, it's ACPA's job and our responsibility to advance our contract and without concessions.

They’re going to need much more extensive reserve coverage once the new duty regs go into effect.

I agree staffing is a company problem, but ACPA seems content to solve all the company’s problems while netting almost nothing for the pilots.

ACPA gave the 737 pilots a raise. Are you fucking kidding me??! They haven’t flown in a year, but let’s “ensure their wages are protected.” Meanwhile our flat pay colleagues are hung out to dry, especially those on the 320. Even though that’s the fleet picking up all the slack.

We’re in a big staffing shortage right now. We should have all the power, but ACPA is so tied up solving the company’s issues that the membership’s needs get tossed aside.

[yycflyguy]

ACPA gave the 737 pilots a raise. Are you fucking kidding me??! They haven’t flown in a year, but let’s “ensure their wages are protected.” Meanwhile our flat pay colleagues are hung out to dry, especially those on the 320. Even though that’s the fleet picking up all the slack.

We’re in a big staffing shortage right now. We should have all the power, but ACPA is so tied up solving the company’s issues that the membership’s needs get tossed aside.

While I have never endorsed four years of flight pay. When the grounding happened March 13, 2019 the flat pay guys were getting their 75 hours while everyone else was getting 70. Were you complaining to ACPA then too or only after the 3rd MOA? Did you complain when they allowed guys to bid back to their last equipment with vacation and financial incentives (only applicable to those off the A320 or EMJ)? Only now, eh?

[PostmasterGeneral]

ACPA gave the 737 pilots a raise. Are you fucking kidding me??! They haven’t flown in a year, but let’s “ensure their wages are protected.” Meanwhile our flat pay colleagues are hung out to dry, especially those on the 320. Even though that’s the fleet picking up all the slack.

We’re in a big staffing shortage right now. We should have all the power, but ACPA is so tied up solving the company’s issues that the membership’s needs get tossed aside.

While I have never endorsed four years of flight pay. When the grounding happened March 13, 2019 the flat pay guys were getting their 75 hours while everyone else was getting 70. Were you complaining to ACPA then too or only after the 3rd MOA? Did you complain when they allowed guys to bid back to their last equipment with vacation and financial incentives (only applicable to those off the A320 or EMJ)? Only now, eh?

The flat pay guys were getting 75 because they were actually working and not sitting at home. I’d gladly have taken 70 credits a month if it meant I could sit on my ass at home. If I needed to supplement my income even more, I’d have delivered papers one day a week to make up the difference in pay from 70 hours to 75.

[Tealcowboy]

"The flat pay guys were getting 75 because they were actually working and not sitting at home. I’d gladly have taken 70 credits a month if it meant I could sit on my ass at home. If I needed to supplement my income even more, I’d have delivered papers one day a week to make up the difference in pay from 70 hours to 75"

Jesus you need to get a life.

[yycflyguy]

ACPA gave the 737 pilots a raise. Are you fucking kidding me??! They haven’t flown in a year, but let’s “ensure their wages are protected.” Meanwhile our flat pay colleagues are hung out to dry, especially those on the 320. Even though that’s the fleet picking up all the slack.

We’re in a big staffing shortage right now. We should have all the power, but ACPA is so tied up solving the company’s issues that the membership’s needs get tossed aside.

While I have never endorsed four years of flight pay. When the grounding happened March 13, 2019 the flat pay guys were getting their 75 hours while everyone else was getting 70. Were you complaining to ACPA then too or only after the 3rd MOA? Did you complain when they allowed guys to bid back to their last equipment with vacation and financial incentives (only applicable to those off the A320 or EMJ)? Only now, eh?

The flat pay guys were getting 75 because they were actually working and not sitting at home. I’d gladly have taken 70 credits a month if it meant I could sit on my ass at home. If I needed to supplement my income even more, I’d have delivered papers one day a week to make up the difference in pay from 70 hours to 75.

So you're not even on the affected plane but feel you deserved a CBA change because you were "working for it". Formula guys, who have been on the property for up to 20 years, went from 85 hour summer DBMs to 70 overnight. Some will never recover their losses heading into retirement and needing their 5 Best Years now. Were you unaware of the four years of flat pay coming to AC?

[Al Borlin]

So you're not even on the affected plane but feel you deserved a CBA change because you were "working for it". Formula guys, who have been on the property for up to 20 years, went from 85 hour summer DBMs to 70 overnight. Some will never recover their losses heading into retirement and needing their 5 Best Years now. Were you unaware of the four years of flat pay coming to AC?

Were they unaware that 85hr DBMs are not a contractual guarantee? That flying on different fleets changes all the time?

Not saying I disagree with your first point, but to make both of those statements is a contradiction.

[altiplano]

So you're not even on the affected plane but feel you deserved a CBA change because you were "working for it". Formula guys, who have been on the property for up to 20 years, went from 85 hour summer DBMs to 70 overnight. Some will never recover their losses heading into retirement and needing their 5 Best Years now. Were you unaware of the four years of flat pay coming to AC?

Were they unaware that 85hr DBMs are not a contractual guarantee? That flying on different fleets changes all the time?

Not saying I disagree with your first point, but to make both of those statements is a contradiction.

They made a mistake going off contract and handling pilots differently from the outset.

Nobody collects only 70 hours month in month out.

The lost opportunity is what is relevant.

The 900 guarantee will end up being what everyone gets in June, even with 80 to formula guys now.