West coast basing

[nynybear]

This question has no doubt been asked many times, however I’m hoping somebody in the know could entertain me.

I am currently a wide body Captain operating overseas. High time and have flown world wide operating different types of medium and heavies.

The homeland is calling me and I am seriously considering making the move back to The (left coast) Great White North.

If an AC job is pursued, and of course successful, what are the chances of holding a west coast (YYJ, YVR?) base upon being hired? If it is possible then what are the current downsides to it and anything else you can comment on?

Thanks for taking the time.

[bob99]

These days you can hold YVR right away, and if not right away, then on the first equipment bid after being hired.

[yvrflyguy]

That may have been true last year, but the latest bid is showing openings only on the 737 FO list in YVR, and a handful at the bottom of the 320 FO and the 777 FO lists. Everything else is full for the time being. It's in constant flux to likely will change again soon.

[speedah]

Just a heads up: given that you have widebody time you’re almost guaranteed to be forced onto a 777 or 787 FO position. Hopefully there are vacancies on the west coast for those aircraft.

[altiplano]

YVR is the only West coast base, it's generally a more senior base than YYZ, so slower rise in seniority for schedule/vacation/upgrade on average, but it's also been adding a lot of flying/positions.

Whatever base/type you get assigned in your initial, you can bid for base change without restriction on type, whatever your seniority can hold. If you have to retrain to transfer, you'll probably be 6 months or so to get moved, if you don't require training only a few months to get transferred.

Currently 737/320/777 FO are all new hire seniority level to hold ie.vacant slots. 787 FO/RP 777 FO are basically new hire seniority, junior pilots are all people hired within the last 6 months.

[nynybear]

Thanks very much for all the very useful info. Looking at the salary scale I’d just like to confirm that on anything on a YVR base it’s 56k as an FO and stays 5 digits until the 5 year mark?

[derateNO]

Thanks very much for all the very useful info. Looking at the salary scale I’d just like to confirm that on anything on a YVR base it’s 56k as an FO and stays 5 digits until the 5 year mark?

Correct. Although if you choose to go left seat on say the 737 or 320 in YVR (upgrades are currently around 2-3 year mark) you jump to near 200k as going left seat moves you to the big boy payscale.

I don't imagine flat pay will be around forever either, or at least removed in some capacity like right seat WB. There are just too many vacancies right now they need to fill, and by having it remain flat pay for WB FO until year 5 it's not enticing anyone who is an RP to upgrade. As of our current bid there's over something like 160 WB FO positions and the company has some delusion they will fill them all with qualified OTS pilots. Yet they have more than a few RPs with the skills who would gladly do the job if it weren't for it being exactly the same pay with a worse schedule.

If you include pay steps and %2 inflation your relative yearly salary is give or take, $55k, $59.5k, $69k and $79k for the first 4 years with a 900 hour a year guarantee, however most are flying more. At minimum I'd say you can count on 80 hour block months working out to 960 hours ish a year. On top of that if you pick up draft here and there, you make 1.5x premium pay.

Speedah is also correct, you're pretty much guaranteed to be forced into one of the widebodies as FO. That lifestyle will suck big time FYI, you'll be bottom end reserve for a long time. AC is a bit short sighted by forcing people into that position as I expect many will just bid off. I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually cheaper to just make flat pay 2 years or not at all if you are WB FO but some bean counter in a back office thinks otherwise.

If you get forced onto the WB and don't want to be on it, you can bid off the position but keep in mind they have the right to keep you on it for around 300 days. Many people bid another position in another base (say you were forced to YVR 777 FO) you would bid 737 YYZ, and then on the next bid 2 months later bid back to YVR 737. You can only bid onto a new plane in your first 4 years if you do it at another base, but there's nothing stopping you from base transferring once it's awarded.

There's a lot of really dumb rules here. Be prepared for that.

[ygkkefk]

you can bid left seat NB to get off of the flat pay quick.

[flyingcanuck]

Thanks very much for all the very useful info. Looking at the salary scale I’d just like to confirm that on anything on a YVR base it’s 56k as an FO and stays 5 digits until the 5 year mark?

well same pay anywhere for the first 4 years yes

[nynybear]

Thanks very much again for all of the very useful information. Many things to consider... Clear Canada still has a long way to go with pilot pay and lifestyle but hopefully things are trending (slowly) in the right direction.

If I could just ask one more question.. Supposing I was granted a YVR basing as an WB FO, would it be possible to commute from Victoria or is the expected reserve roster too restrictive for that? I fail to see how anybody can support a family in Greater Vancouver on the current initial pay...

[rudder]

Pretty sure that YYJ-YVR is the busiest or one of the top two busiest commute city pairs.

Jazz has lots of Vancouver island commuters and they get first crack at the jumpseat (all AC flights on that route are Jazz operated).

Good news is that there are other operators and options to get back and forth, including the South Terminal.

Good luck.

[nynybear]

Some things best not left to luck...

Thanks again all!

[speedah]

Thread drift regarding flat pay:

I know a lot of people say they my get rid of flat pay, but I honestly cannot see a good reason why...

There is no shortage of applicants

Even if they force guys with 737 jet time or larger, that is all pilots from Sunwing, Transat, Westjet, and overseas.

Heck they're even saying RJ guys could be forced onto wide body FO's... and then you have all the Sky Regional pilots who have jet time..

Unless they see some major hiccups in training ( the number of additional sims and failed training events is definitely increasing ), I don't see a change coming.. as much as I want it to.

[derateNO]

Thanks very much again for all of the very useful information. Many things to consider... Clear Canada still has a long way to go with pilot pay and lifestyle but hopefully things are trending (slowly) in the right direction.

If I could just ask one more question.. Supposing I was granted a YVR basing as an WB FO, would it be possible to commute from Victoria or is the expected reserve roster too restrictive for that? I fail to see how anybody can support a family in Greater Vancouver on the current initial pay...

It would be tough.

Your best bet while on reserve would be to live in Chilliwack. It's not that far, 1.5 hours or so but still close enough that you can drive in when you get called. As FO you could get a lot of short call stuff for turns to YYC or YYZ so commuting while on reserve isn't ideal. With the way things are going now, depending on how fast the lists move and how many new hires they put in the WB FO positions, it's hard to guess how long you might be reserve.

For someone with your experience, I would bid off it relatively right away and go FO on whatever you plan to upgrade on. 320 or 737. With the time you have in the left seat of the WB's overseas you'd be crazy not to take that upgrade ASAP.

[derateNO]

Thread drift regarding flat pay:

I know a lot of people say they my get rid of flat pay, but I honestly cannot see a good reason why...

There is no shortage of applicants

Even if they force guys with 737 jet time or larger, that is all pilots from Sunwing, Transat, Westjet, and overseas.

Heck they're even saying RJ guys could be forced onto wide body FO's... and then you have all the Sky Regional pilots who have jet time..

Unless they see some major hiccups in training ( the number of additional sims and failed training events is definitely increasing ), I don't see a change coming.. as much as I want it to.

Anyone with the experience to be hired at AC is more than capable of flying as a WB FO. The company really is scared for no reason. They've been putting new hires in 767 FO positions for a while now with no real issues. It's a optics problem. When all your 3-4 year RPs won't upgrade to FO because you are taking advantage of your pilot group it's a sign there is a toxic issue within the company. Last bid we had what, 130 WB FO positions? Now it's over 150. It's only going to keep getting worse. I anticipate either them knocking it down to 2 years or just taking WB FO's off it like they do Captains. They'll have hundreds of pilots lining up to fill those positions, and then make room for new hires to go RP where they can get a bit of ETOPS and overseas experience. The widebodies are what make us the real money. The suspension of flights to China is a bit of a bandaide right now. Just can't wait to see how hectic things get when the MAX is back, China is a go and we're taking deliveries of the A220 and MAX every month. It's going to be quite the ride.

[YesMassaPayson]

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