Layoffs

[Squid]

“Heard from an MLO that only 70 of the old boys took the early retirement package.....thanks boys”
That’s rich.
And yeah 600 are going. The question should be is when are they gonna come back and ask for more. This is still a very deteriorating situation with this pandemic lasting much longer than the summer.

[160tonoaha]

How many of those 600 haven’t finished their annual line check post ppc and could be let go all together if deemed a surplus without any reason? They fall under probation rules after all.

[FL320]

They fall under probation rules after all.

That wouldn’t be ethic

[speedah]

“Heard from an MLO that only 70 of the old boys took the early retirement package.....thanks boys”
That’s rich.
And yeah 600 are going. The question should be is when are they gonna come back and ask for more. This is still a very deteriorating situation with this pandemic lasting much longer than the summer.

This was the first group, who had already submitted notice for retirement. It was 58 out of the 73 eligible.

The next groups deadline to submit is the 7th I believe

[FL-280]

How many of those 600 haven’t finished their annual line check post ppc and could be let go all together if deemed a surplus without any reason? They fall under probation rules after all.

Not really how probation works lol

[Fanblade]

How many of those 600 haven’t finished their annual line check post ppc and could be let go all together if deemed a surplus without any reason? They fall under probation rules after all.

Not really how probation works lol

We have CBA rules for probation that build upon what labor laws do not afford. It’s actually why probation is so long. AC was of the opinion that if ACPA wanted to constrain AC’s ability to basically fire without cause during probation, then AC wanted more time to look at new hires. It’s a trade off.

They are still on our seniority list. Every single one. They will be recalled in order of seniority and then resume probation.

Let talk like that go straight to the trash bin.

[FL-280]

Exactly... +1

[Fanblade]

“Heard from an MLO that only 70 of the old boys took the early retirement package.....thanks boys”
That’s rich.
And yeah 600 are going. The question should be is when are they gonna come back and ask for more. This is still a very deteriorating situation with this pandemic lasting much longer than the summer.

This was the first group, who had already submitted notice for retirement. It was 58 out of the 73 eligible.

The next groups deadline to submit is the 7th I believe

Correct. The company already had a timeline on the first group as they had all given their years notice. None of these individuals were going to save jobs at the bottom. It just helps the company reduce payroll a little quicker. It’s the remaining groups that could mitigate layoffs.

But that is not a given. ACPA has nothing in writing to guarantee that one will mitigate the other. It’s simply a hope. Even though good old ACPA didn’t spell it out that way. AC could still choose to lay-off 600 if all those eligible for ERIP took it.

The spitefulness developing toward our more senior pilots is a bit concerning.

[160tonoaha]

How many of those 600 haven’t finished their annual line check post ppc and could be let go all together if deemed a surplus without any reason? They fall under probation rules after all.

Not really how probation works lol

We have CBA rules for probation that build upon what labor laws do not afford. It’s actually why probation is so long. AC was of the opinion that if ACPA wanted to constrain AC’s ability to basically fire without cause during probation, then AC wanted more time to look at new hires. It’s a trade off.

They are still on our seniority list. Every single one. They will be recalled in order of seniority and then resume probation.

Let talk like that go straight to the trash bin.

Good, would be a terrible spot to be caught in otherwise.

So which part of the acpa clause protects someone under probation right now to not just be let go cause they’re on probation?

For example, how many max guys are still on probation almost 2 years in?

I really hope I’m wrong. Maybe you can point me to a clause that proves I am.

Thanks fanblade

[Fanblade]

Article 9

First three sentences.

If your intent is to stir the pot I won’t be bitting.

[160tonoaha]

Article 9

First three sentences.

If your intent is to stir the pot I won’t be bitting.

It’s not.

Let me take a look.

[Kaykay]

Article 9

First three sentences.

If your intent is to stir the pot I won’t be bitting.

It’s not.

Let me take a look.

Ask your reps a question like this, not an anonymous forum. Move on from your rather blatant attempt to stir the pot.

[thrust set]

But wait !!!! Everyone STOP and take a deep breath, I was reading the AC pilot forum and there are a couple pilots that said we signed the MOU too fast.

We could have asked for more .

I know, shit we could have asked for a raise

[Kaykay]

But wait !!!! Everyone STOP and take a deep breath, I was reading the AC pilot forum and there are a couple pilots that said we signed the MOU too fast.

We could have asked for more .

I know, shit we could have asked for a raise

Oh I love a good chuckle. Thanks for that.

[rudder]

AA got 620 to take early retirement with a far superior offer than the terms offered via the AC MOU. AA just opened another 650 spots for early. They lowered the qualifying age for round 2 from 63 to 62. If they get 1200 that will be about 8% of the list (a higher percentage of actives).

[RippleRock]

I fail to see why AC doesn't offer a better package. The pension plan is --way-- overfunded.

I guess it makes more sense to pay them $16k a month to wait till things start rolling....whenever that is.

Any ideas?

[altiplano]

But wait !!!! Everyone STOP and take a deep breath, I was reading the AC pilot forum and there are a couple pilots that said we signed the MOU too fast.

We could have asked for more .

I know, shit we could have asked for a raise

Didn't we?

Now there are 75% government wage bailouts.

Do you think we should have known about that?

How about early retirement numbers? Maybe we should have quantified that? Or put a dollar value on what they wanted to achieve?

[tallyho]

To use the obvious reference, the first group of pilots that were laid off hadn't even finished their initial training and they are not being let go as if they were probationers. They will be recalled in seniority, have the option of retaining their benefits and are still members of ACPA etc. No clause required.




Let talk like that go straight to the trash bin.
[/quote]

Good, would be a terrible spot to be caught in otherwise.

So which part of the acpa clause protects someone under probation right now to not just be let go cause they’re on probation?

For example, how many max guys are still on probation almost 2 years in?

I really hope I’m wrong. Maybe you can point me to a clause that proves I am.

Thanks fanblade
[/quote]

[Liftvsdrag]

Quick question regarding the guys and girls that got their GS cancelled a couple days prior to their official start date.
Would we get called back in order of seniority or is it too bad so sad, start from scratch?
A lot of us (all?) didn't get taken back from our old employer and now at every interview the question of why we left our previous job will have to be answered by "well I was supposed to start at AC" ... It tells a potential employer that we could leave the moment AC hires again and therefor would think twice about hiring us.
At least someone who officially got hired knows she/he, at some point, will get hired back and it's a matter of time. For us... Most companies wouldn't take us because they would be afraid we would leave quickly (and it's totally understandable)and we don't even know if AC would take us back at the end. I know quite a few from this groundschool and a lot are nervous and don't want to bother HR as they are probably very busy. So if anybody here knows either N or J and could either reply here or send me a PM, that would be greatly appreciated and I would share the info.

Good luck to everyone getting layed off, stay safe and hopefully this nightmare will end before next spring.

[FL-280]

Honestly, get a lawyer and sue them. The effects on your career are horrible and that notice was very questionable. all you want is a guaranteed number for a call back, I get that. And you should have it IF you signed the offer letter