Layoffs

[Liftvsdrag]

Thanks for the tips everyone.
My understanding is that I do have legal ground but... do I want/need to go there? I hope not (and I doubt it). I do trust the HR department will do what I believe is the right thing when the time comes.
Just in case I will contact ACPA to at least make myself known and try to seek a solution and/or more information. I'm sure they are very busy as well at the moment but one can always ask.

Thanks again everyone and please take care of each other.

[Sharklasers]

You had never started at AC and HR is reluctant to keep a pool due to the last group of poolies threatening to sue when PML 1.0 came out.
I would contact HR and ACPA but understand ACPA has no legal grounds to represent you as you were not a dues paying member and never employed by AC. This is a terrible situation and I am sympathetic and hope to fly with you soon but if this recovery goes on 1-3 years, the operators get their let for the FDT regs, throw in a merger and it could be a long time (years) before AC requires new blood.

It looks like if you did sue your remedy would be 3 months lost wages, better then nothing but the court cannot compel AC to hire you while laying off 16500 employees.

https://duttonlaw.ca/rescinded-employment-offers/

[L39Guy]

Heard from an MLO that only 70 of the old boys took the early retirement package.....thanks boys

Why do some seem to think the “old boys” owe it to others to retire? Most, if not all, have been furloughed during previous downturns, many more than once. They stuck it out and are now at the top of the pile. I’d say they’ve earned the right to stay if desired.

No one owes anything to anyone.

No one "earned it". Simply - they didn't die and passed a basic flight test.

What I think people were hoping:

- They had a good run and can leave before $shit really hits the fan and have a graceful departure

- Be remembered for the best of times in aviation and not what is inbound - flying in fear, wearing a F'n face mask, locked up in hotels, and watching co workers get booted to the street, downbids, commutes from hell due to lack of flights - while they munch up their salary

- Unless they were just awful with money and totally disconnected from reality, can live a financial stressless life while others stress out on how to pay rent, mortgages, fund their CWIPP pension plan which is based on earnings not years of service

- Don't get COVID-19 and deal with implications of that

The ones that stay and subsequently decide to deal with any of above, better not complain for a second. They had a pretty decent door offered to them

I took the package for all of the reasons mentioned above plus two others.

First, I remember all too well nearly getting laid off in the 90's and it was colleagues that either retired early or took LOA's that saved my bacon. My turn to return the favour to the next generation.

The second reason is related to the first; my retirement will mean one colleague will keep their job, their income, etc. when they would have otherwise been sent out onto the street likely with a mortgage, kids, etc.

When one does the math with our DB plan combined with income splitting, I would be working for $25 or $26 per credit hour. That makes no sense.

Good luck everyone. I hope that this mess gets sorted out soon and we can return to the "new" normal. My hope too is that sometime in the future when a downturn occurs - and there will be others - that those on this forum and elsewhere who wish that others would step aside do so themselves when they are in the same situation I am today.

[Sharklasers]

Why do some seem to think the “old boys” owe it to others to retire? Most, if not all, have been furloughed during previous downturns, many more than once. They stuck it out and are now at the top of the pile. I’d say they’ve earned the right to stay if desired.

No one owes anything to anyone.

No one "earned it". Simply - they didn't die and passed a basic flight test.

What I think people were hoping:

- They had a good run and can leave before $shit really hits the fan and have a graceful departure

- Be remembered for the best of times in aviation and not what is inbound - flying in fear, wearing a F'n face mask, locked up in hotels, and watching co workers get booted to the street, downbids, commutes from hell due to lack of flights - while they munch up their salary

- Unless they were just awful with money and totally disconnected from reality, can live a financial stressless life while others stress out on how to pay rent, mortgages, fund their CWIPP pension plan which is based on earnings not years of service

- Don't get COVID-19 and deal with implications of that

The ones that stay and subsequently decide to deal with any of above, better not complain for a second. They had a pretty decent door offered to them

I took the package for all of the reasons mentioned above plus two others.

First, I remember all too well nearly getting laid off in the 90's and it was colleagues that either retired early or took LOA's that saved my bacon. My turn to return the favour to the next generation.

The second reason is related to the first; my retirement will mean one colleague will keep their job, their income, etc. when they would have otherwise been sent out onto the street likely with a mortgage, kids, etc.

When one does the math with our DB plan combined with income splitting, I would be working for $25 or $26 per credit hour. That makes no sense.

Good luck everyone. I hope that this mess gets sorted out soon and we can return to the "new" normal. My hope too is that sometime in the future when a downturn occurs - and there will be others - that those on this forum and elsewhere who wish that others would step aside do so themselves when they are in the same situation I am today.

Kudos sir. I hope you have a long and happy retirement.
How big is your boat?

[flashheart]

I think the better question would be is how fast is your plane...congrats

[L39Guy]

Looks faster than what it really is...420 kts IAS/M 0.80. Need to be in a dive to get that.

[TT1900]

Why do some seem to think the “old boys” owe it to others to retire? Most, if not all, have been furloughed during previous downturns, many more than once. They stuck it out and are now at the top of the pile. I’d say they’ve earned the right to stay if desired.

No one owes anything to anyone.

No one "earned it". Simply - they didn't die and passed a basic flight test.

What I think people were hoping:

- They had a good run and can leave before $shit really hits the fan and have a graceful departure

- Be remembered for the best of times in aviation and not what is inbound - flying in fear, wearing a F'n face mask, locked up in hotels, and watching co workers get booted to the street, downbids, commutes from hell due to lack of flights - while they munch up their salary

- Unless they were just awful with money and totally disconnected from reality, can live a financial stressless life while others stress out on how to pay rent, mortgages, fund their CWIPP pension plan which is based on earnings not years of service

- Don't get COVID-19 and deal with implications of that

The ones that stay and subsequently decide to deal with any of above, better not complain for a second. They had a pretty decent door offered to them

I took the package for all of the reasons mentioned above plus two others.

First, I remember all too well nearly getting laid off in the 90's and it was colleagues that either retired early or took LOA's that saved my bacon. My turn to return the favour to the next generation.

The second reason is related to the first; my retirement will mean one colleague will keep their job, their income, etc. when they would have otherwise been sent out onto the street likely with a mortgage, kids, etc.

When one does the math with our DB plan combined with income splitting, I would be working for $25 or $26 per credit hour. That makes no sense.

Good luck everyone. I hope that this mess gets sorted out soon and we can return to the "new" normal. My hope too is that sometime in the future when a downturn occurs - and there will be others - that those on this forum and elsewhere who wish that others would step aside do so themselves when they are in the same situation I am today.

A commendable choice. Nice jet.

My point wasn’t in favour one way or the other for ERIP, merely that there shouldn’t be any expectation that people will take it. When people chose to join a unionized, seniority based system they agreed to those principles; not that the top will quit because they have enough money and others need to build a pension. Sure, this downturn was unforeseen, but aren’t they all?

If people don’t like seniority based systems, where “earning” your position is time based, there are plenty of positions out there where employment and remuneration are skill/experience based.

Full disclosure, I personally don’t have any skin in the game with AC so maybe I don’t “get it”. I do have several dozen former co-workers and one family member in the 600 facing furlough. I hope this passes as quickly as possible and everyone finds their feet.

[vrefplus5]

+ve news nevertheless is AC will be using the Emergency Wage Subsidy Program to rehire all laid off staff. I’d say that’s a win.

[mbav8r]

https://ca.travelpulse.com/news/airline ... rkers.html
Air Canada is re-hiring workers who were recently let go because of COVID-19. Here's the press release that was sent out this morning.

[rudder]

Great news for all affected at AC. Will be interesting to see which other air carriers jump on the same bandwagon.

Assuming the program ends on June 06 (there will be pressure to extend) the new layoff date will likely become June 07 for those affected.

Good luck to all.

[Sharklasers]

+ve news nevertheless is AC will be using the Emergency Wage Subsidy Program to rehire all laid off staff. I’d say that’s a win.

“ Depending on various wage levels, we expect this will help some of you who are furloughed or on Off-Duty Status.”
They never said they will rehire all staff. It caps at 830 a week

[vrefplus5]

They never said they will rehire all staff. It caps at 830 a week

I stand corrected. Thx

[Sharklasers]

Honestly who knows? The internal company email looks like some. But the media is saying all will be rehired.

[rudder]

+ve news nevertheless is AC will be using the Emergency Wage Subsidy Program to rehire all laid off staff. I’d say that’s a win.

“ Depending on various wage levels, we expect this will help some of you who are furloughed or on Off-Duty Status.”
They never said they will rehire all staff. It caps at 830 a week

Devil is in the details.

Is AC planning on paying 100% of regular wages and claiming 75% rebate (to the weekly limit), or planning on paying just 75% of regular wages (to the weekly limit) to previously furloughed staff?

[Old fella]

I would take it as some positive news for your airline. Hopefully the other carriers can do similar to help their employees. Again, nice to see good news of some sort under the current virus shit show.

[jjj]

Dummies try to sue airlines all the time when they feel wronged in the hiring process.

Hardly does it ever work.

AC did nothing wrong to this guy when he didn't get his call. He isn't owed anything. Sad that when he plays it honest a lot of employers won't want to touch him. I get it - but not Acs fault.

Seems to me that your aviation parachute is AC when things turn around. Not a bad deal in the opinion of my generation.

It sucks - i get it - everyone is hurting these days in different ways.

In the meantime - don't make noise and don't become a pain in the ass before you get hired at AC. It doesn't take much for a next in line phone call to turn into NEVER.

This will end and you'll get your call eventually.

I'll likely be sweeping floors for cash to help make ends meet because even the government bailout money isn't enough for a guy with kids etc..

We're all in this together.

JJJ

[Goodman5]

Dummies try to sue airlines all the time when they feel wronged in the hiring process.

Hardly does it ever work.

AC did nothing wrong to this guy when he didn't get his call. He isn't owed anything. Sad that when he plays it honest a lot of employers won't want to touch him. I get it - but not Acs fault.

Seems to me that your aviation parachute is AC when things turn around. Not a bad deal in the opinion of my generation.

It sucks - i get it - everyone is hurting these days in different ways.

In the meantime - don't make noise and don't become a pain in the ass before you get hired at AC. It doesn't take much for a next in line phone call to turn into NEVER.

This will end and you'll get your call eventually.

I'll likely be sweeping floors for cash to help make ends meet because even the government bailout money isn't enough for a guy with kids etc..

We're all in this together.

JJJ

“We’re all in this together”

Telling that to the guy who quit a perfectly good job after AC said ‘come on over!’ by scheduling them a groundschool and having them start online courses. Then kicking them to the street left standing, while we all sit in our chairs.

This happened to a select few, and you gotta feel for them.

You’re right, sueing isn’t the way to go, and maybe AC doesn’t owe them anything.... but it sure as hell isn’t right.

[Flight_level25]

Being one of the “select few” I’m also kicking myself everyday for resigning from my previous position.

However I felt an obligation to do the right thing by providing notice of resignation. With all the online courses and exercises, uniform fittings, I was additionally confident I’d be safely in the door.

I think everyone deals with stress in different ways, it’s important to recognise everyone’s presented with a terrible scenario of some description right now. It’s just how hard will it be to recover. It’s not a bad idea to reach out to an aviation buddy and ask how they’re doing, particularly those with a family to support and a mortgage to pay.

I’m living in hope that once the dust settles, the public will start travelling again. Slowly the wheels will turn and the economy will move once more. A vaccine will be an absolute game changer.

[schnitzel2k3]

Pretty sure there are legal ramifications to rescinded job offers, particularly when a signed agreement is in place and the employee has taken major steps to accept the new job, i.e quit their former employer, moved to a new base, etc. I think most of these are settled out of court, and typically a few months of salary are offered to tide over the employee.

Now is it smart to sue Air Canada if you wanted a job there? No. Very short term thinking.

[Squid]

Pretty sure there are legal ramifications to rescinded job offers, particularly when a signed agreement is in place and the employee has taken major steps to accept the new job, i.e quit their former employer, moved to a new base, etc. I think most of these are settled out of court, and typically a few months of salary are offered to tide over the employee.

Now is it smart to sue Air Canada if you wanted a job there? No. Very short term thinking.

Bad advice in particular when you say pretty sure. In some past cases an employer has give 2 weeks pay out of the goodness of their heart but there is no obligation. This will be a 12-18 month recovery imho.