The Return to Normal?

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Rockie
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by Rockie »

With Covid 19’s “R” factor 62% of the people would need to be infected (immune) to achieve herd immunity.

62% of 7 billion people is 4,340,000,000.
1.1% of 4,340,000,000 is 47,740,000

47,740,000 people....dead. All under the age of 50 as you say. That is in addition to the much higher death rate in people over 50 of which I am one. Thank you.

Are you volunteering to be one of the 47,740,000?
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ALPApolicy
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by ALPApolicy »

Rockie wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 6:29 am With Covid 19’s “R” factor 62% of the people would need to be infected to achieve herd immunity.

62% of 7 billion people is 4,340,000,000.
1.1% of 4,340,000,000 is 47,740,000

47,740,000 people....dead. All under the age of 50 as you say.

Are you volunteering to be one of them?
Yes.

I’m 54.

I’m 5’7” and 172 lbs (an acceptable BMI).

I stopped smoking in 2008.

I stopped drinking alcohol in 2013.

My squamous-cell cancer diagnosis is 5+ years in the past.

A Covid-19 diagnosis essentially doubles the age-adjusted risk of death for about two weeks. Given that one of my hobbies is BASE jumping, I think I’m ok with that risk.

So yes. Infect me and I’ll stay put for two weeks.

John
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DuckBucket
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by DuckBucket »

Rockie wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 6:29 am With Covid 19’s “R” factor 62% of the people would need to be infected (immune) to achieve herd immunity.

62% of 7 billion people is 4,340,000,000.
1.1% of 4,340,000,000 is 47,740,000

47,740,000 people....dead. All under the age of 50 as you say. That is in addition to the much higher death rate in people over 50 of which I am one. Thank you.

Are you volunteering to be one of the 47,740,000?
It’s 1.1% of deaths, not total cases, math is off by a factor of 100.
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Rockie
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by Rockie »

ALPApolicy wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 6:35 am
Rockie wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 6:29 am With Covid 19’s “R” factor 62% of the people would need to be infected to achieve herd immunity.

62% of 7 billion people is 4,340,000,000.
1.1% of 4,340,000,000 is 47,740,000

47,740,000 people....dead. All under the age of 50 as you say.

Are you volunteering to be one of them?
Yes.

I’m 54.

I’m 5’7” and 172 lbs (an acceptable BMI).

I stopped smoking in 2008.

I stopped drinking alcohol in 2013.

My squamous-cell cancer diagnosis is 5+ years in the past.

A Covid-19 diagnosis essentially doubles the age-adjusted risk of death for about two weeks. Given that one of my hobbies is BASE jumping, I think I’m ok with that risk.

So yes. Infect me and I’ll stay put for two weeks.

John
I meant are you volunteering to be one of the dead. You know, take one for the team so somebody else doesn’t have to.

The vast majority of people are just fine doing what people who know what they’re talking about are saying. By and large those people don’t get their scientific advice from Brietbart. With patience, conscientiousness and discipline the world can start getting back in a controlled way.

Put on a mask, don’t hug strangers and follow protocols. It’s not hard. You can even shop now, and soon restaurants will open with conditions. All of this happening while medical solutions are pursued and testing and tracing increase to jump on outbreaks. It will all work provided people don’t get stupid about it.

So don’t get stupid.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by ALPApolicy »

Rockie, reciting three easily provable facts isn’t getting scientific advice. The Italian stats echo what I posted here and elsewhere over the last few weeks. And yesterday’s revelation of the military report on long term care facilities proves we can do what I and others suggest: protect the elderly. We haven’t tried that yet. Why don’t we give it a whirl?

It looks like we will have to figure something other than a repeat shutdown:

https://nationalpost.com/news/ottawa-la ... ing-report
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Rockie
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by Rockie »

Yes it’s an ugly report certainly. It is however focused on five facilities, mentions deficiencies in numerous areas, but does not in any way suggest an ability to isolate the residents of these facilities from the outside world. We can only minimize and mitigate. It also in no way addresses the millions of us at a certain age and above who are not in one of these facilities.

As the measures we are undertaking now are designed to protect you from me and me from you, why not out of the goodness of your heart just do them so that I can go to a restaurant reasonably confident I won’t catch the virus from you? I promise to follow them so you won’t get it from me.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by ALPApolicy »

Rockie wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 7:40 am Yes it’s an ugly report certainly. It is however focused on five facilities, mentions deficiencies in numerous areas, but does not in any way suggest an ability to isolate the residents of these facilities from the outside world. We can only minimize and mitigate. It also in no way addresses the millions of us at a certain age and above who are not in one of these facilities.

As the measures we are undertaking now are designed to protect you from me and me from you, why not out of the goodness of your heart just do them so that I can go to a restaurant reasonably confident I won’t catch the virus from you? I promise to follow them so you won’t get it from me.
Why do you have to go to a restaurant? Or the yacht club? Or the golf club? Why can’t we quarantine you and let the less vulnerable lead their lives as you were allowed to do so? Maybe we should resurrect the flypast60 group for this pursuit?

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the average age of Covid deaths replicates the average life expectancy in pretty much EVERY jurisdiction...Covid death stats mirror non-Covid age-adjusted death stats. We are likely just pulling deaths forward by a few months in most cases, and the vast majority of those are people with pre-existing conditions as the linked report above shows.

The governments are realizing they overshot; they know that LTC’s was where the bulk of the problem was; they know we don’t have the money to repeat this disaster.

More and more politicians will have the courage to admit they got it wrong, like NY Governor Andrew Cuomo just did.
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Rockie
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by Rockie »

ALPApolicy wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 7:55 am Why do you have to go to a restaurant? Or the yacht club? Or the golf club? Why can’t we quarantine you and let the less vulnerable lead their lives as you were allowed to do so?
Because me and many millions more are full up members of this society as well and it's not unreasonable for you to wear a goddamn mask and stand a bit apart from me, as I am willing to do for you.

This is the kind of "@#$! you" attitude that thankfully only a minority of people have developed in the last 20 years. If you think I'm difficult and harsh to deal with wait until the other 60% of the population also reaches their limit and jams that "@#$! you" attitude right back down your throat.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by ALPApolicy »

Don’t get me wrong, champ. I think social distancing is fine. And mask wearing too (except outside, that’s just dumb).

Just the government shutdown of the economy is a non-starter anymore. We need to keep you safe and that probably means you need to look out for your own safety and don’t expect the rest of society to stop living and imperil their futures.

I’m sure with a glass of rum in your hand you can imagine yourself wherever you want to be, so why not relax and spend the next year safely in your nest and we’ll UberEats you food?
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Rockie
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by Rockie »

ALPApolicy wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 8:53 am Don’t get me wrong, champ. I think social distancing is fine. And mask wearing too (except outside, that’s just dumb).

Just the government shutdown of the economy is a non-starter anymore. We need to keep you safe and that probably means you need to look out for your own safety and don’t expect the rest of society to stop living and imperil their futures.

I’m sure with a glass of rum in your hand you can imagine yourself wherever you want to be, so why not relax and spend the next year safely in your nest and we’ll UberEats you food?
I hate rum.

Inside or out, mask on within 6 feet of anybody else not in your own household, you keep me safe by wearing a goddamn mask and standing 6 feet away or is that too much to ask? And maybe you missed the part where the economy is opening up again. Stores, restaurants soon, flying.
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mbav8r
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by mbav8r »

ALPApolicy wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 8:53 am Don’t get me wrong, champ. I think social distancing is fine. And mask wearing too (except outside, that’s just dumb).

Just the government shutdown of the economy is a non-starter anymore. We need to keep you safe and that probably means you need to look out for your own safety and don’t expect the rest of society to stop living and imperil their futures.

I’m sure with a glass of rum in your hand you can imagine yourself wherever you want to be, so why not relax and spend the next year safely in your nest and we’ll UberEats you food?
I’d like to know your logic about the difference between wearing a mask inside vs outside?
Environmental factors like wind will undoubtedly direct your droplets towards people downwind from you, is there some magic I’m unaware of that makes covid less effective outside.
Besides the fact, people don’t fucken get it, give me my 6’ and I’ll give you yours, as an added bonus I’ll wear a mask in consideration of others who get within my protective bubble, please just do the same
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by ALPApolicy »

mbav8r wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:11 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 8:53 am Don’t get me wrong, champ. I think social distancing is fine. And mask wearing too (except outside, that’s just dumb).

Just the government shutdown of the economy is a non-starter anymore. We need to keep you safe and that probably means you need to look out for your own safety and don’t expect the rest of society to stop living and imperil their futures.

I’m sure with a glass of rum in your hand you can imagine yourself wherever you want to be, so why not relax and spend the next year safely in your nest and we’ll UberEats you food?
I’d like to know your logic about the difference between wearing a mask inside vs outside?
Environmental factors like wind will undoubtedly direct your droplets towards people downwind from you, is there some magic I’m unaware of that makes covid less effective outside.
Besides the fact, people don’t fucken get it, give me my 6’ and I’ll give you yours, as an added bonus I’ll wear a mask in consideration of others who get within my protective bubble, please just do the same
Simply put:

The Solution to Pollution is Dilution.

Ventilation is the key to reducing the risk. If you’re in an airplane cabin for instance, you want the cabin air flow rate on MAX.

Outside, unless you’re a close talker (see Seinfeld), the risk is minimal. I’m not wearing a mask outside and neither were most people here yesterday in the community I live in on the South Shore of Montreal.

Inside, I’ll wear a mask if it’s mandatory or if I feel that I can’t stay reasonably away from others. In most supermarkets, I don’t feel the need to wear a mask. I avoid talking moistly and I don’t shadow people.
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Rockie
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by Rockie »

So, too much to ask. Why don't you stay at home?
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ALPApolicy
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by ALPApolicy »

Rockie wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:51 am So, too much to ask. Why don't you stay at home?
Because I’m not the one at risk.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by ALPApolicy »

Why are you so ready to curtail MY freedoms before you curtail yours?

The odds are, you’re not going to be contributing much in the way of taxation in the next few years to pay for what has been done to protect YOU. So why don’t you help out the rest of your brethren by keeping yourself healthy and not being a burden on an apparently overburdened health care system.
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mbav8r
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by mbav8r »

ALPApolicy wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:24 am Why are you so ready to curtail MY freedoms before you curtail yours?

The odds are, you’re not going to be contributing much in the way of taxation in the next few years to pay for what has been done to protect YOU. So why don’t you help out the rest of your brethren by keeping yourself healthy and not being a burden on an apparently overburdened health care system.
You can’t have it both ways, they have stopped short of mandating masks but recommend everyone wear one to get the economy going but you don’t care about the risks to others around you, just the economy. Your disdain for your fellow Canadians is apparent, so @#$! you very much for your lack of compassion.
You also fail to recognize that the second wave may very well prove more hazardous to otherwise healthy people and the goal is to reopen the economies around the world without wiping out millions of people.
For what it’s worth, I’m not in the high risk group, mid forties non smoker, not obese or other major health concerns, I wear a fucking mask when I go out despite the many, many assholes like you who feel it infringes on your god damn right to infect others.
@#$! off and ...... fill in the blank with whatever you want
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mbav8r
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by mbav8r »

mbav8r wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:37 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:24 am Why are you so ready to curtail MY freedoms before you curtail yours?

The odds are, you’re not going to be contributing much in the way of taxation in the next few years to pay for what has been done to protect YOU. So why don’t you help out the rest of your brethren by keeping yourself healthy and not being a burden on an apparently overburdened health care system.
You can’t have it both ways, they have stopped short of mandating masks but recommend everyone wear one to get the economy going but you don’t care about the risks to others around you, just the economy. Your disdain for your fellow Canadians is apparent, so @#$! you very much for your lack of compassion.
You also fail to recognize that the second wave may very well prove more hazardous to otherwise healthy people and the goal is to reopen the economies around the world without wiping out millions of people.
For what it’s worth, I’m not in the high risk group, mid forties non smoker, not obese or other major health concerns, I wear a fucking mask when I go out despite the many, many assholes like you who feel it infringes on your god damn right to infect others.
@#$! off and ...... fill in the blank with whatever you want
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by FL-200 »

mbav8r wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:42 am
mbav8r wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:37 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:24 am Why are you so ready to curtail MY freedoms before you curtail yours?

The odds are, you’re not going to be contributing much in the way of taxation in the next few years to pay for what has been done to protect YOU. So why don’t you help out the rest of your brethren by keeping yourself healthy and not being a burden on an apparently overburdened health care system.
You can’t have it both ways, they have stopped short of mandating masks but recommend everyone wear one to get the economy going but you don’t care about the risks to others around you, just the economy. Your disdain for your fellow Canadians is apparent, so @#$! you very much for your lack of compassion.
You also fail to recognize that the second wave may very well prove more hazardous to otherwise healthy people and the goal is to reopen the economies around the world without wiping out millions of people.
For what it’s worth, I’m not in the high risk group, mid forties non smoker, not obese or other major health concerns, I wear a fucking mask when I go out despite the many, many assholes like you who feel it infringes on your god damn right to infect others.
@#$! off and ...... fill in the blank with whatever you want

Guys. I mean, come on.

If your SOPs mandate the wearing of a mask at work, guess what, you need to wear a mask.

Not wearing a mask isn’t the same as murdering innocent people, like, get a grip.
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Rockie
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by Rockie »

FL-200 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 11:05 am Not wearing a mask isn’t the same as murdering innocent people, like, get a grip.
No, it's not like murdering someone. But if some shithead refuses to wear a mask because it hides his handsome face or whatever and because of that someone else gets sick and maybe passes that on to someone else who does die before they know they're infected, who's the asshole responsible.

Just put on the fucking mask and stop being a fucking asshole. Sure, you're handsome face is covered but then you won't be a fucking asshole so everything's good.
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Last edited by Rockie on Wed May 27, 2020 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Blue42
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Re: The Return to Normal?

Post by Blue42 »

Rockie wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 9:51 am So, too much to ask. Why don't you stay at home?
Because he’d miss out on all the OT :lol:
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