2nd Job

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Atlanticflyer77
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2nd Job

Post by Atlanticflyer77 »

Hi all,

I’m coming off a retired aircraft and have no start date planned for my next type...on flat salary and the paycheques aren’t quite cutting it from AC....just want to confirm what I think I already know, we’re allowed to pick up a second job as long as it’s not in aviation right? Collect paycheque from AC and say, Home Depot at the same time without any problems from management?
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Rockie
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by Rockie »

No problem at all even when you’re flying as long as you arrive for your flights properly rested. If you take a job that involves flying though it needs to be cleared with them as it could affect your availability to AC. Also if you’re on reserve no matter what your other job is you are expected to be available and rested. Plenty of people have other jobs and businesses on the side.
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fur1ough
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by fur1ough »

∆∆∆

What he said.
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RedAndWhiteBaron
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

Your time is your time. What you choose to do with it is none of Air Canada's business.

The reality may differ, but my sentiment remains the same.
no matter what your other job is you are expected to be available and rested
No. Not if you made your pre-existing commitments clear.

But to be fair - I know nothing.
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fur1ough
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by fur1ough »

Well yeah your latest post is asking what lift is because of a disagreement with your instructor. How many hours do you have 40? 50?
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CL-Skadoo!
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

Sometimes a healthy serving of humble pie is in order.
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Rockie
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by Rockie »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:50 pm Your time is your time. What you choose to do with it is none of Air Canada's business.

The reality may differ, but my sentiment remains the same.
The poster needs to know his employers' opinion, yours does not help him.
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mbav8r
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by mbav8r »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:50 pm Your time is your time. What you choose to do with it is none of Air Canada's business.

The reality may differ, but my sentiment remains the same.
no matter what your other job is you are expected to be available and rested
No. Not if you made your pre-existing commitments clear.

But to be fair - I know nothing.
Regarding your entire comment, you are correct, you know nothing:)-
Air Canada being the primary employer, you owe them your time. Being a pilot has other responsibilities and showing up rested as per CARS definition would be a big one. You can not rest while working at another job, being that the original poster is not intending to fly and has no aircraft to fly, any other job would be irrelevant to this but if he/she gets a job flying 130 hours per month and then cannot fly a full block when returned to duty at AC, that would also be a problem.
At Jazz this is in our agreement, I would be surprised if AC doesn’t have similar language;
“ 3-1 PILOT’S PROFESIONAL FLYING This Agreement contemplates that all Pilots shall devote their entire professional flying service to the Company unless Company approval is otherwise granted. This approval shall not be unreasonably withheld. Professional flying shall be defined as acting as a flight crew member while flying an aircraft for remuneration. A Pilot may at his discretion work in any other capacity. It is the Pilot’s responsibility to inform the Company of any flight duty performed for another Company. This shall be subject to the Jazz code of conduct policy. If there is a disagreement with the administration of the policy this shall be dealt with between the MEC Chairman and the VP Operations. If this does not resolve the disagreement it shall be subject to arbitration”
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Raymond Hall
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by Raymond Hall »

While employed as a pilot by Air Canada I worked in several outside jobs, both as a management consultant (running corporate management education seminars) and later attending both business school and law school full-time, and completing, full-time, my articles with the Law Society. Then, working both part-time and full-time as as associate lawyer at a large Winnipeg law firm, and later as a sole practitioner.

You owe a duty to your primary employer to meet the requirements of your contractual, ethical and professional obligations, including showing up for work when scheduled, reserve or otherwise, fully competent, including not being under any physical or emotional disability, including fatigue. You also may have an obligation to not engage in any employment that would constitute a conflict of interest with your employer, including working for one of your employer's competitors. However, even that latter requirement would likely become unenforceable in the event of furlough.

With respect to your employer's dictates regarding external employment, there are two components—namely, law and policy. The former is much more stringent than the latter, but it is also much more restrictive on the employer.
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RedAndWhiteBaron
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

Rockie wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:29 am
RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:50 pm Your time is your time. What you choose to do with it is none of Air Canada's business.

The reality may differ, but my sentiment remains the same.
The poster needs to know his employers' opinion, yours does not help him.
Fair enough.
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Atlanticflyer77
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by Atlanticflyer77 »

Thanks for all the info you guys. Much appreciated.

👍🏻👍🏻
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Raymond Hall
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by Raymond Hall »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:02 am At Jazz this is in our agreement, I would be surprised if AC doesn’t have similar language;
If you are a pilot with Jazz, why are you so active on this Forum, which is for Air Canada pilots?
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mbav8r
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by mbav8r »

Raymond Hall wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:06 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:02 am At Jazz this is in our agreement, I would be surprised if AC doesn’t have similar language;
If you are a pilot with Jazz, why are you so active on this Forum, which is for Air Canada pilots?
Are you kidding me with that! It’s a public forum, PUBLIC and if I have an opinion based on my 30 years in the industry, I’m going to give it. I even stated, as you quoted that my opinion is based on the language in the Jazz pilot contract but also based on common sense and industry experience I’m well qualified to comment on the issue at hand.
BTW, you are no longer an Air Canada pilot, maybe time to move on yourself.
With all you outlined that you achieved during your career at AC, I would question whether or not you always showed up for work meeting the required definition of rested. I would be hypocritical though so, I won’t question it!
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fur1ough
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by fur1ough »

Jazz and AC have pretty much the same policy..
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by digits_ »

Who says Air Canada would be the OP's primary employer? Is there a legal or contractual definition of "primary employer"?

Not that it really matters for the answer, but I thought it was interesting a couple of posters named AC as the primary employer.
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fur1ough
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by fur1ough »

He/she said "AC" in their original post, and this is the Air Canada subforum.....? :rolleyes:
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mbav8r
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by mbav8r »

digits_ wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:54 pm Who says Air Canada would be the OP's primary employer? Is there a legal or contractual definition of "primary employer"?

Not that it really matters for the answer, but I thought it was interesting a couple of posters named AC as the primary employer.
I’m not sure what the percentage would be, given that I am NOT an Air Canada pilot but I’m guessing the amount of pilots who do not consider AC their primary employer is low. I’ve never seen an ad for part time pilot for them and would guess during the interview if you indicated you were primarily employed or plan to be elsewhere, that’s about as far as you’d get but what do I know, just a Jazz pilot in the wrong forum.
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Raymond Hall
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by Raymond Hall »

mbav8r wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:27 pm With all you outlined that you achieved during your career at AC, I would question whether or not you always showed up for work meeting the required definition of rested.
I am not suggesting that you should not have access to and post on this Forum. All I am saying is that with the dozens (hundreds?) of posts that you have made on this Air Canada Forum, especially about all of the issues of mandatory retirement and seniority in respect of the Air Canada collective agreement and in the posts that you have been openly critical of my viewpoints and actions in regard to same, you now disclose that you are not even an Air Canada pilot. A total absence of transparency, to this point.

With respect to your speculation that I may have at one time or another breached my obligations to meet my own employment obligations re fatigue, given my external involvements, why don’t you throw some more spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

My record in meeting and exceeding the employment requirements speaks for itself, including the total absence of any disciplinary or other incidents whatsoever. So, try some other form of defamation, if you must. Don’t you think that, given my public condemnation of the senior Air Canada management’s actions when I was MEC Chair, the management would have loved to find some peccadillos in my operational performance? It didn’t happen, for good reason. I did my job to the required specifications and greater.

One thing that differentiates me from almost every other single contributor to this Forum is that I post in my own name and stand by my record, which is obvious for everyone to see and criticize. You are clearly not willing to do the same.
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Sharklasers
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by Sharklasers »

Raymond Hall wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:09 pm
mbav8r wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:27 pm With all you outlined that you achieved during your career at AC, I would question whether or not you always showed up for work meeting the required definition of rested.
I am not suggesting that you should not have access to and post on this Forum. All I am saying is that with the dozens (hundreds?) of posts that you have made on this Air Canada Forum, especially about all of the issues of mandatory retirement and seniority in respect of the Air Canada collective agreement and in the posts that you have been openly critical of my viewpoints and actions in regard to same, you now disclose that you are not even an Air Canada pilot. A total absence of transparency, to this point.

With respect to your speculation that I may have at one time or another breached my obligations to meet my own employment obligations re fatigue, given my external involvements, why don’t you throw some more spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

My record in meeting and exceeding the employment requirements speaks for itself, including the total absence of any disciplinary or other incidents whatsoever. So, try some other form of defamation, if you must. Don’t you think that, given my public condemnation of the senior Air Canada management’s actions when I was MEC Chair, the management would have loved to find some peccadillos in my operational performance? It didn’t happen, for good reason. I did my job to the required specifications and greater.

One thing that differentiates me from almost every other single contributor to this Forum is that I post in my own name and stand by my record, which is obvious for everyone to see and criticize. You are clearly not willing to do the same.
Everyone who cares or has ever really read his posts knows who Mbav8r works for and his name. Hell, ‘mbav8r’ is his goddamn license plate.

Ray stop acting like this is some big reveal and the veil is finally lifted. If it make you feel better though Ray I do work for AC and share mbav8r’s feelings on fly till you die even though he is just a lowly regional pilot and not a retired titan of the heavy iron like yourself.
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fur1ough
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Re: 2nd Job

Post by fur1ough »

Lol @ fly till you die.

FP60 was one of the single biggest mistakes in recent history. And that's saying a lot considering Rouge exists.

I would have loved to retire with a full pension at 60, after having a unicorn career. Some people just want more more more more. And ACPAs contract is a blatant example of how those at the top could care less about anyone else.
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