Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

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altiplano
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by altiplano »

RippleRock wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:04 pm There's been something strange going on in ACPA for the past decade or so. The last real legit leader was JMB. All downhill from there. Something happens to those who run the association, MM is no exception, in fact with all the dictatorial MOU's, he's one of the worst. He loses no sleep over short changing the pilots he was elected to represent. There must be something twisting their brain in Ben Smith or CR's hot tub water.

They all end up as an arm of Flt Ops Management and it's the best way to describe ACPA. Representing the pilots group and upholding the contract is secondary at best. ACPA is ALWAYS the first to jump into the "burning building" to save the Corp. They don't seem to understand how little their "contribution" actually makes to the bottom line, while showing little regard for how disasterous the MOU's are to its own members.

I've lost hope there will be any legit change. One thing we can be sure of there is no shortage of Management titles awarded to the MEC Chair or negotiator that sells out the membership for the biggest dollar amount. It's like a bad re-run.
It's almost inexplicable to understand how some of the reps turn...

I heard in at least one case an individual has a business and they want to sell a service to the company, clearly a conflict of interest if they are trying to represent us while also lobbying to enrich themselves in a seperate deal.

I also heard that there are people in ACPA being paid for consulting to an outside 3rd party business, seems like something that should be disclosed when you are paid by anyone other than AC.

Maybe the MEC and other senior committee members should also disclose how much AC stock they have. We have previously had reports of individuals bragging over how much money they made on AC shares during a time coincident to representing ACPA in critical roles and moments wrt our collective agreement. So who were they looking out for?
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Hangry
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by Hangry »

I don’t see how ALPA would be any different. It would be the same names over and over just like ACPA.

I see how ALPA’s toolbox helped WJ.

No thanks
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Squid
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by Squid »

Accountability for these guys and many of the committees has been questionable at best. It’s systemic with committee people as well always living away from the office fornicating the dog at home.
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fur1ough
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by fur1ough »

Hangry wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:51 am I don’t see how ALPA would be any different. It would be the same names over and over just like ACPA.

I see how ALPA’s toolbox helped WJ.

No thanks
You're right in saying if we don't change the people then not much else will change. But the fact we wouldn't be policing ourselves in my mind is a huge benefit.

At this point, ACPA has done nothing worth noting in the last few decades so I am all for trying something new.
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Last edited by fur1ough on Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fur1ough
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by fur1ough »

altiplano wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:55 am

I heard in at least one case an individual has a business and they want to sell a service to the company, clearly a conflict of interest if they are trying to represent us while also lobbying to enrich themselves in a seperate deal.

I've heard rumors of this as well.
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a220hereicome
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by a220hereicome »

Squid wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:48 am Accountability for these guys and many of the committees has been questionable at best. It’s systemic with committee people as well always living away from the office fornicating the dog at home.
Agree with you 100%, brother. You should only be allowed to serve on a committee if you live in Mississauga
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L39Guy
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by L39Guy »

And who can forget The TA2 period when the entire negot’s team, MM included, were on a full-time ACPA paid flight release for the better part of a year. Flobbin’ Aubin used his release to go to law school full time.

Not to be outdone, the ACPA President, PS, used his full time ACPA paid flight release to go to MBA school.

That’s your ACPA dollar at work.
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RippleRock
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by RippleRock »

ACPA reeks.

I can't wait for the next "unvoted for" MOU. It should be a doozy judging from the leading questions on the survey. The mandate was obvious. Lower expectations into negative territory.

The damn contract was suppose to protect us during hard times cause God knows it protected the Company from us asking for more during years and years of record profits. The Contract was "out the window" within a month of the voluntary grounding with a 55 hour 6 month LOU. Bottom line effect to AC over the 6 months --- negligible.

Let's see how our current leadership puts that "carefully worded" survey to work against us.
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fur1ough
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by fur1ough »

RippleRock wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:43 pm ACPA reeks.

I can't wait for the next "unvoted for" MOU. It should be a doozy judging from the leading questions on the survey. The mandate was obvious. Lower expectations into negative territory.

The damn contract was suppose to protect us during hard times cause God knows it protected the Company from us asking for more during years and years of record profits. The Contract was "out the window" within a month of the voluntary grounding with a 55 hour 6 month LOU. Bottom line effect to AC over the 6 months --- negligible.

Let's see how our current leadership puts that "carefully worded" survey to work against us.
Don't give me nightmares.

Please vote no on everything.

I need a job worth coming back to, you know since it will probably take 7 years to get off flat pay now.

How amazing the last few years has been. From making over 100k to taking the pay cut to come to AC based on a lot of financial calculations and looking long term, only to get laid off and be essentially broke.

This industry is something...
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

What a fucking joke this union is these days. I am a flat pay FO. Every single fellow pilot I've spoken to couldn't believe the MOA affected us flat-payers as well. Did that cut really save the company that much money? How do you cut something that's carely there to begin with? They're still laying off anyways! Now the guys just laid off have been trying to survive on $2600/mo (Yes, you read that right) for the past few months before being shown the door.

How was this MOA even passed without any input whatsoever from the membership? Feels like a shady back alley midnight deal to me... Par for the course over at ACPA?

That memo posted shows that DSC's will be retroactive to April 2020. For a senior WB CA, 4 months of salary top-up could pay 1.5 flat pay salaries for a year. Let that sink in.
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altiplano
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by altiplano »

I disagree with the MOA, but at least everyone took the hit on hours, that's solidarity, we all feel the pain... good for one, good for all.

That the union leaders voted themselves a raise is completely against sharing that pain in solidarity with the membership, the same membership whose dues will pay their top-up and retroactively at that .. I already knew these guys were out of touch but this is really unbelievable.
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by Jean-Pierre »

I think the issue is flat pay pilot were already taking a hit for the good of the group.
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98 Corolla
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by 98 Corolla »

Jean-Pierre wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:01 pm I think the issue is flat pay pilot were already taking a hit for the good of the group.
Unbelievable that they had the results of a very recent member survey saying flat pay was the biggest issue, and then they agreed to make it even worse.
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RippleRock
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by RippleRock »

It’s hard for me to get my head around the idea that ACPA reps voted in favour of giving themselves a raise with the members own dues, after forcing a “no vote” 55 hour MOU onto the entire group, and agreeing to layoffs.

This is absolutely incredible.

Everyone who voted yes to this absolute outrage should be terminated immediately.
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ZBBYLW
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by ZBBYLW »

With taking concessions I think in reality they should have kept flat payers at 75-77.5 hours. Failing that perhaps a 53 hour (or what ever an accountant deemed necessary) for the rest of us to keep flat payers up.

More then anything I wonder what this MOA did for us. Let's face it, the 10 year deal left us in quick sand, while our US counterparts did very well. The 10 year deal helped the company. While I do not support a 10 year deal, I will admit that the one benefit of the 10 year deal would have been to protect us in a downturn and yet it seemed ACPA dropped the soap on purpose here. As can be seen by the slow roll of layoffs, AC can't down train fast enough to realistically get much below 600 pilots by September anyhow, yet we have them a huge pay cut. We should all still be at 77.5 for Rouge and what ever the DBM min for ML is, plus 75 hours for ML flat payers.

Anyhow, like I have always said. CR plays chess and we play connect 4.
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altiplano
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by altiplano »

You're absolutely right. They couldn't train fast enough to lay off any faster than they have. So why did we give it up? 75 for flat pay, 77.5 for LCC, 80 for 737, plus the 900 hour guarantee that was in place, min block on a 70 bit DBM would have still been 65...

I would be all for helping the company for real gains for us, real layoff savings, all we did though is give millions while they lay off and position themselves, and come Oct 1 they will keep going past 600.
RippleRock wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:24 pm Everyone who voted yes to this absolute outrage should be terminated immediately.
And they won't tell you how they voted...

I wonder if the YUL Chair will get his DSC top-up on top of the overtime he's flying?
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

How much money was saved by laying off the bottom 600 guys (all on flat pay) at 55 credits a month? Anyone do the math?
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RRJetPilot
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by RRJetPilot »

Bout 2.1 mil a month.
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condor1
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by condor1 »

RRJetPilot wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:33 pm Bout 2.1 mil a month.
Does this number take CEWS in consideration?
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'97 Tercel
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Re: Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

Post by '97 Tercel »

So if they're getting topped up above the 55 hour pay is it really volunteer work anymore?
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