How to get rid of ACPA?

['97 Tercel]

I always wanted to start a new page

[TheStig]

I always wanted to start a new page

Page 7 is tabloids and gossip right?

[planebored]

Nothing like changing what was historically the LEC Chair voting dates to the day after 180 junior pilots get laid off.

In the past the voting has been typically from Sept 25 - Oct 5th.

Low and behold this year it's conveniently starting Oct 5th, after we have groups getting laid off days before.

Very much exactly what a democratic and open organization would do. No collusion here at all...

But Captain Joe Blow who retires in 3 months gets a vote. LOGIC.

[RippleRock]

Nothing like changing what was historically the LEC Chair voting dates to the day after 180 junior pilots get laid off.

In the past the voting has been typically from Sept 25 - Oct 5th.

Low and behold this year it's conveniently starting Oct 5th, after we have groups getting laid off days before.

Very much exactly what a democratic and open organization would do. No collusion here at all...

But Captain Joe Blow who retires in 3 months gets a vote. LOGIC.

Ya. You can't make this $hit up. ACPA is absolutely corrupt and pushing a very clear agenda. Standby for an MOA extension that WILL NOT be voted on.

[planebored]

YUL and YVR LEC Chairs are scared of this pilots for change group. YWG too, but that's a whole other discussion if 60 pilots should have one full vote on the MEC (you can guess what I think...)

They know their time is coming, and by default the MEC Chair as well as he won't have the majority of support anymore.

Lots to fix on the inside of ACPA. If we end up ALPA, great... if we don't the question is are you happy with the status quo? I'm not. At the end of the day the membership will decide if we merge with ALPA. If we don't lets get to work fixing ACPA and that starts with a complete overhaul of the constitution and removing the power the members of the super committees have. And I am willing to give P4C a shot depending on who they run. Based on the email I saw today I have a feeling we'll see some familiar faces running for LEC in YVR and YUL. Two people who are allstars IMO, you can put two and two together.

The question then is who will replace them from the seats they vacate. I have an idea, time will tell.

[planebored]

1.jpg (332.93 KiB) Viewed 2060 times

2.jpg (511.47 KiB) Viewed 2060 times

3.jpg (475.6 KiB) Viewed 2060 times

[dialdriver]

What assurances due you have that ALPA Canada will accept the Air Canada pilots into their membership?

[planebored]

What assurances due you have that ALPA Canada will accept the Air Canada pilots into their membership?

We'll have to see.

It starts with trying.

The ALPA Intl side of things is done and ready. A carrier status and all. The key is getting the Canadian groups on board and that starts with opening the door. Less "We are Air Canada pilots and are better than everyone" attitude. Which is alive and well within our pilot ranks.

Maybe these new candidates can make a change, for example electing an MEC Chair that is more open to working with other groups?

[Mrbobmarly111]

Its simple. ALPA canada wants ACPA. Because they have more pilots than Westjet and Jazz combined. They want the MONEYYY jesus its obvious. Long story short I will tell everyone the bad experience ive had with Alpa and if they dont believe me ill point them at most of the other companies in Canada. They tell the story well. Im not sure why the new people want to change unions so bad anyways. Its like changing grocery stores simply because they have the wrong kinda bread. And once you get to the new store. You wanna change back because this new store sucks. But sorry folks the old store was burned down by some dumb kids no going back now.... happy long weekend and Vote No once you get the chance

[planebored]

Its simple. ALPA canada wants ACPA. Because they have more pilots than Westjet and Jazz combined. They want the MONEYYY jesus its obvious. Long story short I will tell everyone the bad experience ive had with Alpa and if they dont believe me ill point them at most of the other companies in Canada. They tell the story well. Im not sure why the new people want to change unions so bad anyways. Its like changing grocery stores simply because they have the wrong kinda bread. And once you get to the new store. You wanna change back because this new store sucks. But sorry folks the old store was burned down by some dumb kids no going back now.... happy long weekend and Vote No once you get the chance

Funny my experiences with ALPA along with many other people I know we're just great.

But keep the rhetoric up.

[fish4life]

Why not start by doing reps elected to represent seniority blocks instead of bases? Eg seniority 0-500 have a rep, 500-1000 have another, 1000-1500 etc

[planebored]

Why not start by doing reps elected to represent seniority blocks instead of bases? Eg seniority 0-500 have a rep, 500-1000 have another, 1000-1500 etc

Personally I see this as a partial solution but there should still be some base representation on a local level. To deal with local issues.

Perhaps NEMs split into 3 different seniority bands.

I would also support a move to base CA/FO reps where you can only vote for your specific seat. While there are some very Sr FOs it would somewhat fix the balance of seniority representation.

As it stands now, everyone being able to vote for every seat is a problem when demographics shift around. For example senior Captains voting en masse for both LEC seats and drowning out other voices. We have two Captains in YYZ right now as Chair and Vice Chair. While I personally think they are both doing a good job, one can wonder if Jr FOs or RPs feel represented or feel like they have a person to talk to who can relate directly to their issues.

You know who has options for all this built into their governance model? I'll let you guess.

[Johnny767]

What assurances due you have that ALPA Canada will accept the Air Canada pilots into their membership?

We'll have to see.

It starts with trying.

The ALPA Intl side of things is done and ready. A carrier status and all. The key is getting the Canadian groups on board and that starts with opening the door. Less "We are Air Canada pilots and are better than everyone" attitude. Which is alive and well within our pilot ranks.

Maybe these new candidates can make a change, for example electing an MEC Chair that is more open to working with other groups?

Not completely true, it changed with the new US President and ALPA C colluding to not have AC go into Group A. I am a big fan of ALPA but Group A status or forget it.

[planebored]

I agree A status or nothing. And I'm pretty confident the P4C group feels the same.

[altiplano]

They already agreed and passed the amendment required so we could join in the A Team. The changes take affect as soon as we merge. This was a while back, we got everything we wanted, maybe some of us have forgot

Sounds like this got stalled out by a few on each side of it (both ACPA & ALPA Canada) defending their little towers.

You can bet that as soon as ACPA can get a leadership together that says we want in all that bullshit skirrnish small thinking will be brought in line.

[Mrbobmarly111]

I personally know the people who were negotiating on behalf of ACPA with ALPA. This whole thing is stalled because of the Transat deal. They told me they cant keep negotiating a merger of the unions if the company is in talks to purchase a company with a pilot group already represented by ALPA. Basically a conflict of interest.

I still strongly oppose a merger of ACPA and ALPA. But its not a "deep state" conspiracy why they stopped talks.

After this Covid thing is over it might start up again but after the member survey (nice of a union like ACPA to ask its members what they want and post the results). I dont think they will be pursuing ALPA any time soon.

[Mrbobmarly111]

Honestly everyone im not opposed for hearing legitimate arguments for switching to ALPA. But all i hear is people BIT$&ing about how ACPA is "Broken". Give some examples about how things can be better. Also just saying ACPA mgmt is useless... well guess what that is useless. The people the members vote in wont change with a change in union. Right now a year 5 FO at AC has alot of options from top of the list 320 to 20 ish percent on a 777. The pay would be between 110 to 180 000 in the 5th year at the company. Compared to Westjet and Jazz as a FO at Jazz prob 50-60000 and westjet maybe 90 000. And the schedule at AC is way better. Dont believe the bullsh!t that Jazz has it all so much better. My buddy whos worked at AC for 2 year on the 320 has 19 days off a month. How HOW do you compete.

Do yourself a favor and stop going on AV canada and caring about such stupid issues and get to AC asap.

[GoodLuckSanta]

I have been here for 12 years and I agree. No one has been able to convince me why my 16 days off a month and $ 2 hundred thousand as a F/O could be any better with ALPA.

[NoIEatKraftDiner]

First time poster. I came from Westjet Encore 4 years ago. And almost every person i knew 3 atleast who helped set up ALPA and the first ALPA contract there are at Air Canada now.

[planebored]

They already agreed and passed the amendment required so we could join in the A Team. The changes take affect as soon as we merge. This was a while back, we got everything we wanted, maybe some of us have forgot

Sounds like this got stalled out by a few on each side of it (both ACPA & ALPA Canada) defending their little towers.

You can bet that as soon as ACPA can get a leadership together that says we want in all that bullshit skirrnish small thinking will be brought in line.

This was my understanding as well.