Daniel Cooper wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:40 pm
Yeah I don't think it's AC.
This is perhaps some sneaky business. Jazz is doing a big portion of AC's actual flying right now. If someone bought them and put a stop to that AC would really be left scrambling to move passengers economically.
It's probably just Trudeau and his little journalist become Finance Minister though.
Well if they stopped flying they'd be breaking their end of the CPA... I wonder how that would go over. I agree it's probably the feds. Good luck getting it to pass at the board or shareholder level unless they are prepared to pay $8-10/share. Lots of bag holders right now and Chorus is a strong company which will likely come out of this without a problem.
I would approve that but to be clear people are thinking the feds are looking to buy the entire company, leasing, voyageur, Jazz and the MRO business.
Honestly the only thing that makes any sense is AC, easy to sell the share holders on the savings generated from this purchase.
The CPA has a MADUG for the guaranteed fleet and that bill comes due at the end of the year, the scope issue dies and I’m sure a few other benefits.
For the pilots, some will benefit, as I mentioned elsewhere I cannot stomach the thought of losing my DB pension, this will cause me to lose sleep, that and I don’t want to become an......well I’ll just leave that thought
Well you didn't lose your DB when Jazz was spun off, and ours is significantly overfunded. Join them and call it a day. Whether that happens or not is the question but as someone not on the DB at AC I have nothing against you keeping yours.
Now the conversation about "winfall gains" would very much come into play and I don't see any scenario where an arbitrator awards any kind of integration where a Jazz pilot will be able to hold any NB or WB Captain seat. Or really any integration other than BOTL or close to it. The bottom 1500 AC pilots are filled with largely ex Jazz pilots who had many years of service and that will not be ignored.
You're right though if the Feds wanted only a regional it would make more sense to put an offer in for Porter.
spinaxis wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:01 pm
Well you didn't lose your DB when Jazz was spun off, and ours is significantly overfunded. Join them and call it a day. Whether that happens or not is the question but as someone not on the DB at AC I have nothing against you keeping yours.
Now the conversation about "winfall gains" would very much come into play and I don't see any scenario where an arbitrator awards any kind of integration where a Jazz pilot will be able to hold any NB or WB Captain seat. Or really any integration other than BOTL or close to it. The bottom 1500 AC pilots are filled with largely ex Jazz pilots who had many years of service and that will not be ignored.
You're right though if the Feds wanted only a regional it would make more sense to put an offer in for Porter.
To begin with, Jazz was a separate company that was wholly owned by AC, so the pilot contract was intact as the asset was sold.
You guys have a clause that has any company owned by AC, the pilots have to be on your list, my concern is that I would be treated as a new hire, that does not sit well with me but it’s out of my hands.
I don’t care about all the other stuff, that can be sorted out by an arbitrator, to be sure there will be some fighting just not by me. I guess we will find out eventually who this buyer is or not if no deal comes.
Rather than speculate I will postulate and maybe some can percolate before responding.
Isn't Chorus aviation a large company that holds many more moving parts than simply Jazz? From what I read it looks like there is overseas contract flying, domestic contract medical stuff and maintenance operations.
Has anyone researched EIC? They have faired quite well during this pandemic and actually purchased more airplanes. If you look at their history to date it looks like their Dr. evil style plan is to hold all the regional flying in Canada. They even bought a flight school to try to ensure they can supply new hires to their regional flying companies. They already operate heavy maintenace, contract flying, medivacs and look to generate income through already established cash generators, they then squeeze for efficiencies and consolidate amongst their other groups.
If EIC buys chorus they can potentially acquire surplus planes that they can easily repurpose into their already diverse flying across Canada. The CPA may be a bonus to turn the remainder of their regional flying into a code share or expand the CPA across their entire network.
I do not know this to be factual, nor is anything being said to date on this thread. Please put the Air Canada/ Jazz ego aside and try to evaluate this unbiased and remember the sun does not rise or set only for AC and or JAZZ. be willing to admit you don't know the answers because we actually don't. If any of us were smart enough to navigate complex multi million/billion dollar mergers we wouldn't be posting free opinions on a pilot forum.
I'm open to rebuttals as this is only me using my past experience within EIC and I'm trying to be unbiased ( yes I'm an AC pilot).
Tdicommuter wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:15 am
Rather than speculate I will postulate and maybe some can percolate before responding.
Isn't Chorus aviation a large company that holds many more moving parts than simply Jazz? From what I read it looks like there is overseas contract flying, domestic contract medical stuff and maintenance operations.
Has anyone researched EIC? They have faired quite well during this pandemic and actually purchased more airplanes. If you look at their history to date it looks like their Dr. evil style plan is to hold all the regional flying in Canada. They even bought a flight school to try to ensure they can supply new hires to their regional flying companies. They already operate heavy maintenace, contract flying, medivacs and look to generate income through already established cash generators, they then squeeze for efficiencies and consolidate amongst their other groups.
If EIC buys chorus they can potentially acquire surplus planes that they can easily repurpose into their already diverse flying across Canada. The CPA may be a bonus to turn the remainder of their regional flying into a code share or expand the CPA across their entire network.
I do not know this to be factual, nor is anything being said to date on this thread. Please put the Air Canada/ Jazz ego aside and try to evaluate this unbiased and remember the sun does not rise or set only for AC and or JAZZ. be willing to admit you don't know the answers because we actually don't. If any of us were smart enough to navigate complex multi million/billion dollar mergers we wouldn't be posting free opinions on a pilot forum.
I'm open to rebuttals as this is only me using my past experience within EIC and I'm trying to be unbiased ( yes I'm an AC pilot).
Cheers gals and guys
I think it's a great move for EIC. Strong fundamentals. Strong dividend. Solid management.
As to what this implies for "flow through" for Jazz pilots, this remains to be seen. If this acquisition goes through, I think Skyregional will be around for a long time to keep them in check.
Comparable to our US counterparts, I think it's a great strategy for EIC. As for AC, the question is will the regional costs increase as planned or spike beyond that, and at which point does it "hurt" so much that AC will use Sky OR bring that back into AC.
Great for Chorus, a lot more diversification that I can see. However, I am a little skeptical what the implications are in the long run from a continued partnership. Good thing we have the A220. And nothing says that Skyregional can't start operating Q400s.
Tdicommuter wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:15 am
Rather than speculate I will postulate and maybe some can percolate before responding.
Isn't Chorus aviation a large company that holds many more moving parts than simply Jazz? From what I read it looks like there is overseas contract flying, domestic contract medical stuff and maintenance operations.
Has anyone researched EIC? They have faired quite well during this pandemic and actually purchased more airplanes. If you look at their history to date it looks like their Dr. evil style plan is to hold all the regional flying in Canada. They even bought a flight school to try to ensure they can supply new hires to their regional flying companies. They already operate heavy maintenace, contract flying, medivacs and look to generate income through already established cash generators, they then squeeze for efficiencies and consolidate amongst their other groups.
If EIC buys chorus they can potentially acquire surplus planes that they can easily repurpose into their already diverse flying across Canada. The CPA may be a bonus to turn the remainder of their regional flying into a code share or expand the CPA across their entire network.
I do not know this to be factual, nor is anything being said to date on this thread. Please put the Air Canada/ Jazz ego aside and try to evaluate this unbiased and remember the sun does not rise or set only for AC and or JAZZ. be willing to admit you don't know the answers because we actually don't. If any of us were smart enough to navigate complex multi million/billion dollar mergers we wouldn't be posting free opinions on a pilot forum.
I'm open to rebuttals as this is only me using my past experience within EIC and I'm trying to be unbiased ( yes I'm an AC pilot).
Cheers gals and guys
I think it's a great move for EIC. Strong fundamentals. Strong dividend. Solid management.
As to what this implies for "flow through" for Jazz pilots, this remains to be seen. If this acquisition goes through, I think Skyregional will be around for a long time to keep them in check.
Comparable to our US counterparts, I think it's a great strategy for EIC. As for AC, the question is will the regional costs increase as planned or spike beyond that, and at which point does it "hurt" so much that AC will use Sky OR bring that back into AC.
Great for Chorus, a lot more diversification that I can see. However, I am a little skeptical what the implications are in the long run from a continued partnership. Good thing we have the A220. And nothing says that Skyregional can't start operating Q400s.
My two cents.
As someone else pointed out, EIC does not have the available funds to finance an offer of this size.
As of June 2020 EIC had $66M of cash and cash equivalent. However, Free cash flow was $-38M
Second hurdle, even if they scrapped together the cash, they would have to convince the shareholders it was a viable offer. Unlike Transat, Chorus is is no immediate risk, and continues to be profitable, with a solid business model. It would be difficult to see it being sold for less than $6 a share, which would bring the valuation closer to a billion. Even then, you would have to convince the shareholders (and Air Canada) that any sale would be better off than simply waiting for a return to $8.
I doubt it is them.
Personally, I think it would be far more likely to see Jazz carved out of Chorus, with Chorus remaining with the remaining portion of their business, including holding the leases on a sizable portion of the Jazz fleet.
Tdicommuter wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:15 am
Rather than speculate I will postulate and maybe some can percolate before responding.
Isn't Chorus aviation a large company that holds many more moving parts than simply Jazz? From what I read it looks like there is overseas contract flying, domestic contract medical stuff and maintenance operations.
Has anyone researched EIC? They have faired quite well during this pandemic and actually purchased more airplanes. If you look at their history to date it looks like their Dr. evil style plan is to hold all the regional flying in Canada. They even bought a flight school to try to ensure they can supply new hires to their regional flying companies. They already operate heavy maintenace, contract flying, medivacs and look to generate income through already established cash generators, they then squeeze for efficiencies and consolidate amongst their other groups.
If EIC buys chorus they can potentially acquire surplus planes that they can easily repurpose into their already diverse flying across Canada. The CPA may be a bonus to turn the remainder of their regional flying into a code share or expand the CPA across their entire network.
I do not know this to be factual, nor is anything being said to date on this thread. Please put the Air Canada/ Jazz ego aside and try to evaluate this unbiased and remember the sun does not rise or set only for AC and or JAZZ. be willing to admit you don't know the answers because we actually don't. If any of us were smart enough to navigate complex multi million/billion dollar mergers we wouldn't be posting free opinions on a pilot forum.
I'm open to rebuttals as this is only me using my past experience within EIC and I'm trying to be unbiased ( yes I'm an AC pilot).
Cheers gals and guys
I think it's a great move for EIC. Strong fundamentals. Strong dividend. Solid management.
As to what this implies for "flow through" for Jazz pilots, this remains to be seen. If this acquisition goes through, I think Skyregional will be around for a long time to keep them in check.
Comparable to our US counterparts, I think it's a great strategy for EIC. As for AC, the question is will the regional costs increase as planned or spike beyond that, and at which point does it "hurt" so much that AC will use Sky OR bring that back into AC.
Great for Chorus, a lot more diversification that I can see. However, I am a little skeptical what the implications are in the long run from a continued partnership. Good thing we have the A220. And nothing says that Skyregional can't start operating Q400s.
My two cents.
As someone else pointed out, EIC does not have the available funds to finance an offer of this size.
As of June 2020 EIC had $66M of cash and cash equivalent. However, Free cash flow was $-38M
Second hurdle, even if they scrapped together the cash, they would have to convince the shareholders it was a viable offer. Unlike Transat, Chorus is is no immediate risk, and continues to be profitable, with a solid business model. It would be difficult to see it being sold for less than $6 a share, which would bring the valuation closer to a billion. Even then, you would have to convince the shareholders (and Air Canada) that any sale would be better off than simply waiting for a return to $8.
I doubt it is them.
Personally, I think it would be far more likely to see Jazz carved out of Chorus, with Chorus remaining with the remaining portion of their business, including holding the leases on a sizable portion of the Jazz fleet.
I completely agree with your position; I was skeptical it would be them due to what you just mentioned, but with the rumour of "non-binding", this sounds like a leveraged buyout.
