Cargo TA

[chaster]

Going through Q4 statements and Transat seems to have 24 airplanes at their disposal. A certain amount won't be flown until return to lessors. Both companies are smaller than pre-pandemic, but there is no doubt about a simple fact. Transat pilots are showing up (possibly) at AC with more pilots than work.

After reading your post yesterday I thought maybe you were coming around a little? NOTTTTTT LOL ! What I can tell you is only about 1/7TH of our pilots are active! Count it again 1/7th!!!!!!! Safe to say the Sked IS VERY Dynamic not only month to month but day to day so Active Aircraft can change at a moments notice! The Pain my friend is being felt on both sides! Hope you and all our back to work soon! C

[columbia]

Going through Q4 statements and Transat seems to have 24 airplanes at their disposal. A certain amount won't be flown until return to lessors. Both companies are smaller than pre-pandemic, but there is no doubt about a simple fact. Transat pilots are showing up (possibly) at AC with more pilots than work.

After reading your post yesterday I thought maybe you were coming around a little? NOTTTTTT LOL ! What I can tell you is only about 1/7TH of our pilots are active! Count it again 1/7th!!!!!!! Safe to say the Sked IS VERY Dynamic not only month to month but day to day so Active Aircraft can change at a moments notice! The Pain my friend is being felt on both sides! Hope you and all our back to work soon! C

Exactly. Putting almost every TS pilot ratioed at the bottom et 600 furloughed AC pilots who started not even a year ago at AC for a temporary and extraordinary situation would be totally stupid, and no arbitrator would do that. Arbitrators aren’t stupid, they know AC only really needs what, 10-15% on their pilots right now ?

Layoffs/surplus/ inactive is a complex situation, but as long as someone is on a seniority list, thats all that counts. As for recalls, now that’s where more gymnastic will be required.

[FL-280]

Exactly. Putting almost every TS pilot ratioed at the bottom et 600 furloughed AC pilots who started not even a year ago at AC for a temporary and extraordinary situation would be totally stupid, and no arbitrator would do that. Arbitrators aren’t stupid, they know AC only really needs what, 10-15% on their pilots right now ?

Layoffs/surplus/ inactive is a complex situation, but as long as someone is on a seniority list, thats all that counts. As for recalls, now that’s where more gymnastic will be required.

Oh, trust me. I have thought about it very much, and my view has changed. Consolidation in the current situation is positive for TS and AC pilots. But, once again in sounds like TS pilots don't want to sacrifice, they don't want to lose a bit of something.
The snapshot date will be quite crucial, from there my original comment stands. (Ratio, maintain approx overall seniority %, slight increase 2% would be fair on pre AC and post AC/TS merged list)

I don't want to start the complete pissing match from the other post we all had. But, Transat is pretty much stating they will fail or have significant doubt about their future if the transaction doesnt go through. That is a TS pilots future if the transaction fails.
So tell me how the pilots that are deemed extra going to the BOTL would be so horrible and stupid? That is according to you because it effects you. Is it 100% sure all TS pilots get an AC number? I don't know, another discussion but it isn't certain.

I have got a lot of Sh*t for saying this but it remains in a certain way. You can't expect AC pilots to pick up the tab and give away what they have for YOUR career choices. You chose to go to a vacation airline where less stability is a well known fact.

And, I will go back to my avcanada break.

[columbia]

Exactly. Putting almost every TS pilot ratioed at the bottom et 600 furloughed AC pilots who started not even a year ago at AC for a temporary and extraordinary situation would be totally stupid, and no arbitrator would do that. Arbitrators aren’t stupid, they know AC only really needs what, 10-15% on their pilots right now ?

Layoffs/surplus/ inactive is a complex situation, but as long as someone is on a seniority list, thats all that counts. As for recalls, now that’s where more gymnastic will be required.

Oh, trust me. I have thought about it very much, and my view has changed. Consolidation in the current situation is positive for TS and AC pilots. But, once again in sounds like TS pilots don't want to sacrifice, they don't want to lose a bit of something.
The snapshot date will be quite crucial, from there my original comment stands. (Ratio, maintain approx overall seniority %, slight increase 2% would be fair on pre AC and post AC/TS merged list)

I don't want to start the complete pissing match from the other post we all had. But, Transat is pretty much stating they will fail or have significant doubt about their future if the transaction doesnt go through. That is a TS pilots future if the transaction fails.
So tell me how the pilots that are deemed extra going to the BOTL would be so horrible and stupid? That is according to you because it effects you. Is it 100% sure all TS pilots get an AC number? I don't know, another discussion but it isn't certain.

I have got a lot of Sh*t for saying this but it remains in a certain way. You can't expect AC pilots to pick up the tab and give away what they have for YOUR career choices. You chose to go to a vacation airline where less stability is a well known fact.

And, I will go back to my avcanada break.

Well we all know you are laid off, so I guess you’ll come and join us BOTL, carefull what you wish for lol. And btw, we have a 10 year recall right (probably approuved by AC when we signed the LOU, because AC approved EVERYTHING . Nobody can change that.

And btw, if TS was certain to fail, AC wouldn’t buy us. For arbitrators, the price of the buyout, or possible hypothetical scenario won’t matter a second. These are shareholders ( the ones that actually buy, not the pilots who believe they are executives) problems. For arbitrators, we’re just two separate union getting together. CAIL actually failed, and still got ratioed in.Enjoy your break

[FL-280]

Ohh I know, we will be near the bottom don’t worry. I just want fair thats all

[GATRKGA]

Ohh I know, we will be near the bottom don’t worry. I just want fair thats all

Me me me me me starting up again? You don’t think everyone wants fair? You really have a shit perception over the quality of the brothers and sisters joining you. Have you ever Jumpsat with ts? They’re probably the chilliest and coolest guys and gals you’ll ever have the pleasure of working with. Hence why they’re so happy all the time.

Dude, you’re reading into what executives are saying way too much. They say things they’re required to say to create a public perception in line with what ever agenda it is that the c-suite has.

One very small thing for example, ts isn’t going to come out and say everything looks rosy because about 90% of the passengers who want their refunds will be knocking on the doors. That just one concept in why a pr will be spun a certain way. There are about hundred other items on the agenda they’re mindful of.

Now, as for what transat does or doesn’t bring, I’d be careful how you perceive these guys “career choices”

Why? It seemed that anyone you spoke to at AC pre-pandemic gloated about how great rouge is. Draft, 2x, 2.5x, no reserve, young fas on layovers, etc. So by definition, the very job which was transat, ac fan boys were jumping into. Likely because it restored some glory in the job as opposed to a Heathrow layover with a crusty old crew.

Why do I bring this up? The very job that is transat, is what was started at rouge, and a large portion of you ac guys loved it. There were the ones who hated what it did to the contract and etc, but the majority loved it. So the very career choice you’re accusing ts pilots of was alike many of your own acpa siblings. So it’s good to recognize that and stop acting high and mighty. You’re not.

So now the very entity which was responsible for this great position you all rushed too (especially juniors like you fl280), is joining the house.

Now an arbitrator won’t care about any of that, but I do think you need to revisit your perspective a bit when you talk about these so called career choices.

More of those Glory positions will be available as we recover too. Likely that’s the sector which rebounds before anything else. There may appear doom and gloom right now, but that’s everywhere. Ts brings more pilots than jobs, but only in a landscape where all travel has essentially stopped. You watch, the moment we come out of this, how fast transat will grow and all I hope for you, is that you don’t lose so much sight over this nirvana over seniority, that you somehow end up on the sidelines waiting for a recall while every ts pilot is back to work. Sounds ignorant doesn’t it? Just about as ignorant as your bs about whether every ts pilot gets on property. Lol, 10 year recalls as someone said.

Now reality is that no bump or flush happens, but still, you have a lot of people who will take up spots between 3000-3500 as that’s where the relative hiring spree was at transat. So in your case, fl280, you may have to wait a bit longer to get back to work. Not because demand won’t be there for you, but because training slots will be maxed out for your 4000 Numbered position to get trained.

Every ts and ac pilot will have jobs coming out of this. Calm down man. You will retire a block holding wide body captain if that’s what you’re concerned over. Enjoy your break.

[JoeyBarton]

The big question here is how you consider inactive pilots. If you ratio active between themselves then same thing with inactives. That would be a fait start as TS right now brings not that much work but 500 inactive pilots. It really depends on the timing of that snapshot. Right now the most junior pilot working is around #34-3500 at ac after retirements against 100 at TS.
That should be factored in...

[Savage Poetry]

The big question here is how you consider inactive pilots. If you ratio active between themselves then same thing with inactives. That would be a fait start as TS right now brings not that much work but 500 inactive pilots. It really depends on the timing of that snapshot. Right now the most junior pilot working is around #34-3500 at ac after retirements against 100 at TS.
That should be factored in...

No it shouldn't be factored in. I think TS pilots can wait and bid vacancies as they show up with their seniority. That seniority should be very close to date of hire, this pandemic is out of our control and arbitrators won't penalize us even if Air Canada pays 1$ for Transat. I have been in the industry 15 + years, 6 at Air Transat. No way I am giving up my spot to some whiny milennial hired in 2016,2017 +....

[columbia]

The big question here is how you consider inactive pilots. If you ratio active between themselves then same thing with inactives. That would be a fait start as TS right now brings not that much work but 500 inactive pilots. It really depends on the timing of that snapshot. Right now the most junior pilot working is around #34-3500 at ac after retirements against 100 at TS.
That should be factored in...

TS pilots will be out of a salary for a longer time, I think they are paying enough. Leisure won’t be dead forever, in the end we bring more work that for 100 pilots. Any arbitrator with a tiny nut of judgement will know. Plus there are other surplus on the AC side as well. We all know that all 3500 pilots right now arent flying a full block. Plus, once AC gets its taxpayer money, ( which transat would get if they’d stay alone), I think that takes the argument of layoffs off the table, because without government help, we all know AC won’t be able to employ 87% of their pilots for flying thats 20% its pre pandemic level.

[rudder]

The big question here is how you consider inactive pilots. If you ratio active between themselves then same thing with inactives. That would be a fait start as TS right now brings not that much work but 500 inactive pilots. It really depends on the timing of that snapshot. Right now the most junior pilot working is around #34-3500 at ac after retirements against 100 at TS.
That should be factored in...

No it shouldn't be factored in. I think TS pilots can wait and bid vacancies as they show up with their seniority. That seniority should be very close to date of hire, this pandemic is out of our control and arbitrators won't penalize us even if Air Canada pays 1$ for Transat. I have been in the industry 15 + years, 6 at Air Transat. No way I am giving up my spot to some whiny milennial hired in 2016,2017 +....

An arbitration panel will likely factor in unprecedented circumstances in sorting out issues like ‘active vs inactive’ or who is surplus and who is not. Will also determine if there are fences on existing fleets.

What they won’t be doing is using DOH since one list is not DOH based. Whether 6 years at TS is worth more than 4 years at AC remains to be determined. The years in the industry prior to TS also count for zero. Much more likely to be a ratio (or multiple ratios) solution based on relative seniority factoring in equipment and status.

Extreme positions and chest pounding will sound great to the constituents (think Trump) but will have zero influence on the outcome (think courts).

[columbia]

The big question here is how you consider inactive pilots. If you ratio active between themselves then same thing with inactives. That would be a fait start as TS right now brings not that much work but 500 inactive pilots. It really depends on the timing of that snapshot. Right now the most junior pilot working is around #34-3500 at ac after retirements against 100 at TS.
That should be factored in...

No it shouldn't be factored in. I think TS pilots can wait and bid vacancies as they show up with their seniority. That seniority should be very close to date of hire, this pandemic is out of our control and arbitrators won't penalize us even if Air Canada pays 1$ for Transat. I have been in the industry 15 + years, 6 at Air Transat. No way I am giving up my spot to some whiny milennial hired in 2016,2017 +....

An arbitration panel will likely factor in unprecedented circumstances in sorting out issues like ‘active vs inactive’ or who is surplus and who is not. Will also determine if there are fences on existing fleets.

What they won’t be doing is using DOH since one list is not DOH based. Whether 6 years at TS is worth more than 4 years at AC remains to be determined. The years in the industry prior to TS also count for zero. Much more likely to be a ratio (or multiple ratios) solution based on relative seniority factoring in equipment and status.

Extreme positions and chest pounding will sound great to the constituents (think Trump) but will have zero influence on the outcome (think courts).

Yes. Just like the Keller award, 6 different ratios between captain/ FOs, AC types ... will TS pilot get some kind of penalty? Maybe. But throwing 90% of them down the toilet for extraordinary circumstances no way. Anyhow, I think the panel will use their judgement to figure it out. And as other said, working on a better contract together should be a priority. With a lot pf economic challenges and potentially high inflation rate in a couple years, the pay scale should be revised for a higher inlfation rate because 200k won’t be worth as much in 5 years for sure.

[GATRKGA]

For all of those who think leisure is dead.

https://www.businessinsider.com/southw ... 21-2020-12

I’m sure the comment will be the us routes are different.
Yes, but the demand for leisure is not different.

We all have our opinions. Let’s see what happens.

[GATRKGA]

No it shouldn't be factored in. I think TS pilots can wait and bid vacancies as they show up with their seniority. That seniority should be very close to date of hire, this pandemic is out of our control and arbitrators won't penalize us even if Air Canada pays 1$ for Transat. I have been in the industry 15 + years, 6 at Air Transat. No way I am giving up my spot to some whiny milennial hired in 2016,2017 +....

An arbitration panel will likely factor in unprecedented circumstances in sorting out issues like ‘active vs inactive’ or who is surplus and who is not. Will also determine if there are fences on existing fleets.

What they won’t be doing is using DOH since one list is not DOH based. Whether 6 years at TS is worth more than 4 years at AC remains to be determined. The years in the industry prior to TS also count for zero. Much more likely to be a ratio (or multiple ratios) solution based on relative seniority factoring in equipment and status.

Extreme positions and chest pounding will sound great to the constituents (think Trump) but will have zero influence on the outcome (think courts).

Yes. Just like the Keller award, 6 different ratios between captain/ FOs, AC types ... will TS pilot get some kind of penalty? Maybe. But throwing 90% of them down the toilet for extraordinary circumstances no way. Anyhow, I think the panel will use their judgement to figure it out. And as other said, working on a better contract together should be a priority. With a lot pf economic challenges and potentially high inflation rate in a couple years, the pay scale should be revised for a higher inlfation rate because 200k won’t be worth as much in 5 years for sure.

Exactly

[LittleNelly]

For all of those who think leisure is dead.

https://www.businessinsider.com/southw ... 21-2020-12

I’m sure the comment will be the us routes are different.
Yes, but the demand for leisure is not different.

We all have our opinions. Let’s see what happens.

Domestic is not the same thing as transatlantic leisure.. Domestic markets everywhere in the world are projected to bounce back first as people visit friends and family or take a vacation close to home. When they say leisure they just mean people not traveling for work, not people traveling to Europe or taking package vacations.
Besides some people on here seem to forget Air Canada has a leisure arm already, it’s called Rouge(bigger than Transats operation) so any rebound in that segment also benefits air canadas capacity.

Anyway if Transat is looking healthy, all the better for everyone as the federal government would have no need to override the competition bureau thus kill this acquisition once and for all.

[Gulfstream5]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7518713/b-c- ... ouver/amp/


Codeshare to follow in a couple months I suspect.

This is the just the beginning.

[FL-280]

Not allowed under the ACPA CBA.... it has to be a CPA on routes wholly within Canada. You know, real scope for a solid operator....Not '' Meh should be fine, they been around for 30 years and PUJ turns seems more fun than YEG red eyes'' Once again, life is all about choices.

[altiplano]

Codeshare?

Not with AC.

Maybe with Westjet, but I don't know their scope limits on that. Doesn't Pasco have a CPA deal with Westjet? What's going on with that?

[milhouse]

Not allowed under the ACPA CBA.... it has to be a CPA on routes wholly within Canada. You know, real scope for a solid operator....Not '' Meh should be fine, they been around for 30 years and PUJ turns seems more fun than YEG red eyes'' Once again, life is all about choices.

It amazes me how you can be such a douche despite everyone knowing your real name. I guess that's one of YOUR life choices. Have fun dealing with that one for the rest of your career. And for what? Mind blowing.

[FL-280]

Not allowed under the ACPA CBA.... it has to be a CPA on routes wholly within Canada. You know, real scope for a solid operator....Not '' Meh should be fine, they been around for 30 years and PUJ turns seems more fun than YEG red eyes'' Once again, life is all about choices.

It amazes me how you can be such a douche despite everyone knowing your real name. I guess that's one of YOUR life choices. Have fun dealing with that one for the rest of your career. And for what? Mind blowing.

Whatever you say Jacob... see not many secrets in life

[milhouse]

Not allowed under the ACPA CBA.... it has to be a CPA on routes wholly within Canada. You know, real scope for a solid operator....Not '' Meh should be fine, they been around for 30 years and PUJ turns seems more fun than YEG red eyes'' Once again, life is all about choices.

It amazes me how you can be such a douche despite everyone knowing your real name. I guess that's one of YOUR life choices. Have fun dealing with that one for the rest of your career. And for what? Mind blowing.

Whatever you say Jacob... see not many secrets in life

Lol who's Jacob