New MOA details

[bobcaygeon]

Layoff protection until Oct 2021 and call backs for 200 pilots.

What did it cost you?

[Curiousflyer]

CPA Scope grievance is “resolved.”

[McKinley]

CPA Scope grievance is “resolved.”

What does that look like ?

[Mrbobmarly111]

No one on here has and facts. 200 people who were surplus but still flying are going to be moved to active status. And there will be no more than the orginal 600 Furloughs till October. We didn't give anything up. This was all just agreed apon when they negotiated how to incorporate the new fatigue rules. Anyways lots of good. No bad

[Curiousflyer]

CPA Scope grievance is “resolved.”

What does that look like ?

Awaiting further information from ACPA. If ratified, the scope will change to max 35% consolidated block hours can be operated by CPA’s.
The grievance being resolved is likely the catalyst for improvement elsewhere.
Remember under the current scope rules, not a single CPA operator is allowed to operate ANY RJ’s, Q400, or EMJ’s

[Kapitanov]

No one on here has and facts. 200 people who were surplus but still flying are going to be moved to active status. And there will be no more than the orginal 600 Furloughs till October. We didn't give anything up. This was all just agreed apon when they negotiated how to incorporate the new fatigue rules. Anyways lots of good. No bad

Well, we are actually giving up the scope grievance for almost nothing (extra pay for the A220 pilots and 900 hours guarantee per year from Oct 2021 to 2023), and those that are really affected by the non-respect of the scope ratios with Express carriers, the 600 furloughs, basically get nothing at all in return while they should be employed if the ratios would have been respected.

[alkaseltzer]

No one on here has and facts. 200 people who were surplus but still flying are going to be moved to active status. And there will be no more than the orginal 600 Furloughs till October. We didn't give anything up. This was all just agreed apon when they negotiated how to incorporate the new fatigue rules. Anyways lots of good. No bad

In your previous posts, you've been vocal that you're a strong supporter of ACPA. And it's spelled Marley, not Marly.

Anyone else, who might have lukewarm thoughts? Feels like we're in a hot tub and the ACPA rep took a pee inside it.

[thrust set]

Some changes to reserve:

-To help comply with CARs requirements, introduced new Reserve language (using similar concept to other airlines’ system of Best Fit) -( I’ll call that a minor give as the new RAP was complicating things anyway )

-Expanded Reserve patterns to promote days off in order of seniority (finally if you’re senior you can bid your days off and get what you bid for. -Gain )

-Minimum 12/13 Guaranteed (G) days off in 30/31-day block month ( Gain )

- Improved release/reassignment language, (Gain)

- All days off will be G days (exceptions for WJA – two sets of days off beginning with a single T day – Mar, July, Aug, Dec) -( what ! finally you can plan a life on reserve ) -Gain

Premium for PoR who flies into or on a G day -Gain

[bobcaygeon]

Some changes to reserve:

-To help comply with CARs requirements, introduced new Reserve language (using similar concept to other airlines’ system of Best Fit) -( I’ll call that a minor give as the new RAP was complicating things anyway )

-Expanded Reserve patterns to promote days off in order of seniority (finally if you’re senior you can bid your days off and get what you bid for. -Gain )

-Minimum 12/13 Guaranteed (G) days off in 30/31-day block month ( Gain )

- Improved release/reassignment language, (Gain)

- All days off will be G days (exceptions for WJA – two sets of days off beginning with a single T day – Mar, July, Aug, Dec) -( what ! finally you can plan a life on reserve ) -Gain

Premium for PoR who flies into or on a G day -Gain

Wow, that’s overall pretty decent. Your Reserve rules were brutal for GDOs. I sure got an eye opener when I came from Jazz/Air Ontario. I moved on long ago.

I skimmed over the 57 pages and it was clear the duty regs were a significant factor in it but not being super familiar with the current CA it’s a tough read to pick out what’s a gain/loss, especially these days

[Tdicommuter]

Going through the details it looks like a good improvement.

I do not trust the process of allowing the company to track our fatigue on pairings. What are the odds that data get used to our advantage and not to suddenly show why 14.5 hours is now acceptable.

The other thing that caught my eye was a reference to the type of rest facility to be used on the A330/321... Tells me either the union was smart enough to predict the usage of Neos to pound Europe... Or that is where the company is wanting to go. I'm no saying good or bad... Just interesting we have language for 321 augments.

I sympathize though I wish we were closer to full pay for everyone. 63 hour DBM until Oct means it'll be 1.5 years of reduced pay for people.

[altiplano]

Going through the details it looks like a good improvement.

I do not trust the process of allowing the company to track our fatigue on pairings. What are the odds that data get used to our advantage and not to suddenly show why 14.5 hours is now acceptable.

The other thing that caught my eye was a reference to the type of rest facility to be used on the A330/321... Tells me either the union was smart enough to predict the usage of Neos to pound Europe... Or that is where the company is wanting to go. I'm no saying good or bad... Just interesting we have language for 321 augments.

I sympathize though I wish we were closer to full pay for everyone. 63 hour DBM until Oct means it'll be 1.5 years of reduced pay for people.

2.5 years reduced pay for 737 pilots...

It seems there are some improvements going by the sound bite Union release, but then again there had to be improvements because the new CARs required them..

We could have negotiated nothing and just taken improvements by informing the membership where to following CARs over our CA where appropriate.

I've seen enough out of this management team to be sceptical that we got everything mentioned in the release without giving. I'll wait for the full language to be released before passing judgement.

That said, I'm always optimistic that we might turn a page and start on the right track.

[rudder]

Changes owing to implementation of new flight and duty time regulations were free. Surprising that it took until after implementation to reach an agreement covering contractual compliance changes, and perhaps more surprising that those changes are bundled in to an omnibus MOA. What happens if the MOA is voted down? I also note it appears that AC intends to avail itself of FRMS based relief provided for in the new regulations.

The extension of DBM 63 for 6 more months appears to be a quid pro quo for repatriating surplus pilots in to the bid and limiting layoff to the 600 affected pilots.

AC appears to have thrown some $$ at the pilots for scope related issues resulting from the COVID disrupted flight schedule.

Things will not be remotely close to normal by Sept 30 2021, but AC seems comfortable with current staffing and seems more focused on getting the pilots trained in to the seats they have been awarded so they can get the existing and future 220/737 deliveries on line during 2021 and 2022.

One can infer from the MOA that AC sees 2023 as the year that will most closely resemble normal ops.

[Gulfstream5]

Going through the details it looks like a good improvement.

I do not trust the process of allowing the company to track our fatigue on pairings. What are the odds that data get used to our advantage and not to suddenly show why 14.5 hours is now acceptable.

The other thing that caught my eye was a reference to the type of rest facility to be used on the A330/321... Tells me either the union was smart enough to predict the usage of Neos to pound Europe... Or that is where the company is wanting to go. I'm no saying good or bad... Just interesting we have language for 321 augments.

I sympathize though I wish we were closer to full pay for everyone. 63 hour DBM until Oct means it'll be 1.5 years of reduced pay for people.

I know of a company who was thoroughly against the new fatigue rules until one day there magically appeared watches for the pilots to wear to "track" fatigue. Little did they know the volunteers' data would "prove" they weren't fatigued and so that they could continue to operate under previous duty rules. Once the company knew they could get away with It, they were in 100% on the new FRMS.
Noone needs to even guess who this was.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

With the whole “Reserve Best Fit,” Crew Sked will own your life. No more passing down. I worked at Jazz who used “Best fit” and it seemed like any and every reason would be used to prevent you from passing down.

It will be a big lifestyle change for those senior people who would bid reserve.

I know it doesn’t seem like a big give, but it’s bigger than it seems.

[Curiousflyer]

With the whole “Reserve Best Fit,” Crew Sked will own your life. No more passing down. I worked at Jazz who used “Best fit” and it seemed like any and every reason would be used to prevent you from passing down.

It will be a big lifestyle change for those senior people who would bid reserve.

I know it doesn’t seem like a big give, but it’s bigger than it seems.

It’ll change the dynamic of senior reserve for the worse. But significantly improve junior reserve on all fleets. It’ll almost completely socialize the reserve pilots but also giving overall more control over their home time with G days.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Not a fan of "best fit" reserve. Makes it extremely difficult to pass flying down. If crew sched is going to run it anything like Jazz did, they'll come up with every excuse in the book as to why you can't pass.

[bobcaygeon]

Not a fan of "best fit" reserve. Makes it extremely difficult to pass flying down. If crew sched is going to run it anything like Jazz did, they'll come up with every excuse in the book as to why you can't pass.

Agreed but your 12 days off were guaranteed off at JAzz which is HUGE fo rquality of life. AC reserve pilots aren't that lucky right now. If the Company is actually staffed properly "best fit" and seniority works the same. Not a fan of super senior reserve that never flies even when I could hold it.

[airway]

Not a fan of super senior reserve that never flies even when I could hold it.

Nice to have that option if you are:

Doing a reno
Training for a marathon
Caring for a sick family member
Or just want a break

Why wouldn’t you want that option?

[bobcaygeon]

Not a fan of super senior reserve that never flies even when I could hold it.

Nice to have that option if you are:

Doing a reno
Training for a marathon
Caring for a sick family member
Or just want a break

Why wouldn’t you want that option?

Sure it is a great option to have but it also seems pretty arrogant to think that it's your right to get paid to:

Doing a reno
Training for a marathon
Caring for a sick family member
Or just want a break

The rest of the world including other professions where extensive travel is required, there's lots of them, uses vacation/stats/GDOs to do your list. I'm junior and I've done 3 out of 4 of what you've listed. I did the plumbing/Marathon on my GDOs/vacation as this it was made clear if I went flying and the water was off she'd call the plumber and my shit would be on the front lawn the same day.

[altiplano]

Not a fan of super senior reserve that never flies even when I could hold it.

Nice to have that option if you are:

Doing a reno
Training for a marathon
Caring for a sick family member
Or just want a break

Why wouldn’t you want that option?

Sure it is a great option to have but it also seems pretty arrogant to think that it's your right to get paid to:

Doing a reno
Training for a marathon
Caring for a sick family member
Or just want a break

The rest of the world including other professions where extensive travel is required, there's lots of them, uses vacation/stats/GDOs to do your list. I'm junior and I've done 3 out of 4 of what you've listed. I did the plumbing/Marathon on my GDOs/vacation as this it was made clear if I went flying and the water was off she'd call the plumber and my shit would be on the front lawn the same day.

Everyone knows that you volunteer for the Union if you need to do a reno or post-grad degree...