ACPA MEC

[yycflyguy]

Mike Murray is doing a fine job keeping the ship upright.

You got that right... one in the same... Management/ACPA Reps just blend into one...

Took me awhile to get that one.

[RippleRock]

Just a shout out thanks to our MEC for negotiating a 10% cargo discount and a 63 hour LET on pay while the executive suite was awarded an EIGHT figure bonus.

ACPA continues to drop the freaking ball HARD every single time. Will you "yes guys" EVER learn? Clueless. Between the yes camp and our union leadership, a complete train wreck is the only way to define it.

Stick to the contract. Backroom deals with ZERO snapback amount to nothing, and never, ever will.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Just a shout out thanks to our MEC for negotiating a 10% cargo discount and a 63 hour LET on pay while the executive suite was awarded an EIGHT figure bonus.

ACPA continues to drop the freaking ball HARD every single time. Will you "yes guys" EVER learn? Clueless. Between the yes camp and our union leadership, a complete train wreck is the only way to define it.

Stick to the contract. Backroom deals with ZERO snapback amount to nothing, and never, ever will.

Time to join ALPA.

[hithere]

or time for Ripplerock to run for a union position

[altiplano]

Just a shout out thanks to our MEC for negotiating a 10% cargo discount and a 63 hour LET on pay while the executive suite was awarded an EIGHT figure bonus.

ACPA continues to drop the freaking ball HARD every single time. Will you "yes guys" EVER learn? Clueless. Between the yes camp and our union leadership, a complete train wreck is the only way to define it.

Stick to the contract. Backroom deals with ZERO snapback amount to nothing, and never, ever will.

Right on brother.

The yes train just keep porking us. Fucking clueless group.

[RippleRock]

or time for Ripplerock to run for a union position

I pay for my right to complain through union dues, and I pay plenty.

There is no way I would ever attempt a union position. The culture is toxic. Gag orders are the flavor of the day. Comply or be run out. I swear every single individual that has attained either MEC or LEC in the last decade has turned on the Constitution for some reason. Every one. There must be some form of "indoctrination training" through Management meetings that causes a paradigm shift away from the ACPA Constitution. Is it the promise of a Management position for those that excel at shifting "capital" out of our pool, under the guise of "streamlining or efficiency" or by creating further division amongst the group? The history of promotion certainly make this plausible.

However, I think it's simpler. I believe they are "taught" through their "meetings with upper Management" that the pilot groups "compliance" is an integral part of AC's plan to succeed in the market. "If you do this, it will result in more jobs for all,"....don't, and we will cut back, or not grow". Our sense of "self importance" causes us to be just smart enough to understand the concept, but too dumb to see where this will take us. We are also too dumb to understand that the marketing department and air regulations dictate how many aircraft we have, how big we grow, and how much we can fly. Pilots ARE NOT facilitators of anything, we are an essential tool of the trade, like an engine. Each plane needs two. When we understand that we have no direct effect on the direction the Corp chooses to take, nor have any serious effect on that outcome, we will be MILES ahead.

Put the Constitution first. It promotes unity and the betterment of the Membership --as a whole-- as its primary concern. Focus on making the contract better than it was, instead of chopping it into little bits, or ignoring it altogether (MOU). Stop ACPA's "disunity drive" by "SAYING NO" the active promotion of different payscales (cargo) and sub-sections within the pilot body that work under different rules and conditions. When we accepted a 10% pay cut on cargo flying within months of AC awarding upper management with millions in bonusses it's time we took a really close look at what's happening, and what the pilot groups priorities actually are.

Unfortunately, our ACPA leadership whatever their motives, thrive on taking advantage of our "detached" majority. All they have to do is "suggest" a yes on a vote and it passes. Until AC Pilots actually start to really look at, and care about what's happening, nothing will change. Nothing. So why would I waste my time?

I retire soon anyway. The Membership can't seem to open its eyes to the divisive, concessionary path we are on, that will not make one fig of difference to the Corps success or failure. It's an issue they will have to contend with with far longer than I. The reprecussions of the path we are on are huge, but you have to care first. I do, but I'm in the minority.

[bcflyer]

or time for Ripplerock to run for a union position

I pay for my right to complain through union dues, and I pay plenty.

There is no way I would ever attempt a union position. The culture is toxic. Gag orders are the flavor of the day. Comply or be run out. I swear every single individual that has attained either MEC or LEC in the last decade has turned on the Constitution for some reason. Every one. There must be some form of "indoctrination training" through Management meetings that causes a paradigm shift away from the ACPA Constitution. Is it the promise of a Management position for those that excel at shifting "capital" out of our pool, under the guise of "streamlining or efficiency" or by creating further division amongst the group? The history of promotion certainly make this plausible.

However, I think it's simpler. I believe they are "taught" through their "meetings with upper Management" that the pilot groups "compliance" is an integral part of AC's plan to succeed in the market. "If you do this, it will result in more jobs for all,"....don't, and we will cut back, or not grow". Our sense of "self importance" causes us to be just smart enough to understand the concept, but too dumb to see where this will take us. We are also too dumb to understand that the marketing department and air regulations dictate how many aircraft we have, how big we grow, and how much we can fly. Pilots ARE NOT facilitators of anything, we are an essential tool of the trade, like an engine. Each plane needs two. When we understand that we have no direct effect on the direction the Corp chooses to take, nor have any serious effect on that outcome, we will be MILES ahead.

Put the Constitution first. It promotes unity and the betterment of the Membership --as a whole-- as its primary concern. Focus on making the contract better than it was, instead of chopping it into little bits, or ignoring it altogether (MOU). Stop ACPA's "disunity drive" by "SAYING NO" the active promotion of different payscales (cargo) and sub-sections within the pilot body that work under different rules and conditions. When we accepted a 10% pay cut on cargo flying within months of AC awarding upper management with millions in bonusses it's time we took a really close look at what's happening, and what the pilot groups priorities actually are.

Unfortunately, our ACPA leadership whatever their motives, thrive on taking advantage of our "detached" majority. All they have to do is "suggest" a yes on a vote and it passes. Until AC Pilots actually start to really look at, and care about what's happening, nothing will change. Nothing. So why would I waste my time?

I retire soon anyway. The Membership can't seem to open its eyes to the divisive, concessionary path we are on, that will not make one fig of difference to the Corps success or failure. It's an issue they will have to contend with with far longer than I. The reprecussions of the path we are on are huge, but you have to care first. I do, but I'm in the minority.

Couldn’t agree more!

[Lt. Daniel Kaffee]

Give me a break....faithful to the Constitution yada yada yada...

Oh i won't run because they're all corrupt every single one etc etc...

Gag orders....

You guys sound like you should start a group called ACPA Oath Keepers

[RippleRock]

McKaffee. The biggest ACPA cheerleader of them all. Break out the Pom-Poms.

The Constitution is a piece of $hit. Exactly.

Why don't you take a moment of your precious time "saving us all from ourselves" with your superior intellect and actually read it. The entire MEC should take a bit of time off golf or barbecuing by the pool and do a short study session. Maybe the Membership should demand that they each recite a single sentence from it by memory. Just one.

Not one elected official has likely even read it in the last 10 years, as it is disregarded regularly with impunity.

[bcflyer]

Give me a break....faithful to the Constitution yada yada yada...

Oh i won't run because they're all corrupt every single one etc etc...

Gag orders....

You guys sound like you should start a group called ACPA Oath Keepers

Perhaps if you on the MEC (and it pretty obvious that you are) actually followed the constitution we wouldn’t be in this position. Given ACPA’s recent track record you are either incompetent or corrupt. Since you imply they aren’t corrupt it must be that you are incompetent. Either way there needs to be a major house cleaning. (Funny how you managed to make that much more difficult in the not so distant past…)

[Lt. Daniel Kaffee]

Geez you guys with your street smarts are too clever for stupid me, one of the MEC members...I give up....

you're so paranoid and so wound up in your conspiracy theories that you seem to think everyone who contradicts your neurotic and narcissistic thinking is an MEC member....

you couldn't be farther from the truth...never served in any union position ever at any company

just a member of the "fucking clueless group" who is entertained by you clowns

[bcflyer]

Geez you guys with your street smarts are too clever for stupid me, one of the MEC members...I give up....

you're so paranoid and so wound up in your conspiracy theories that you seem to think everyone who contradicts your neurotic and narcissistic thinking is an MEC member....

you couldn't be farther from the truth...never served in any union position ever at any company

just a member of the "fucking clueless group" who is entertained by you clowns

I’m far from paranoid and definitely not neurotic or narcissistic. I’m simply a realist and feel that we could be doing far better on many fronts if we had real leadership. If you a regular line pilot as you claim, actually believe that the current MEC is doing a good job and that our current contract is a good one, you really are a member of the “fucking clueless group”

[Fanblade]

Ripple Rock. The MEC is not the driver of ACPA. It used to be. Now ACPA inc decides what is going to happen and then feeds the MEC selective information to get the vote result ACPA inc wants.

If you want your union back, you’ll have to take it back.

There are enough elections over the next 18 months to take it back.

Focus on that

[a220hereicome]

The MEC is not the driver of ACPA. It used to be. Now ACPA inc decides what is going to happen and then feeds the MEC selective information to get the vote result ACPA inc wants.

Deep state conspiracy! Manchurian candidate!

Does ‘ACPA inc’ meet in a secret underground chamber?

You read too much Franz Kafka.

[redbusdriver]

Geez you guys with your street smarts are too clever for stupid me, one of the MEC members...I give up....

you're so paranoid and so wound up in your conspiracy theories that you seem to think everyone who contradicts your neurotic and narcissistic thinking is an MEC member....

you couldn't be farther from the truth...never served in any union position ever at any company

just a member of the "fucking clueless group" who is entertained by you clowns

I’m far from paranoid and definitely not neurotic or narcissistic. I’m simply a realist and feel that we could be doing far better on many fronts if we had real leadership. If you a regular line pilot as you claim, actually believe that the current MEC is doing a good job and that our current contract is a good one, you really are a member of the “fucking clueless group”

nice you label ur fellow brethren and majority at that, as fucking clueless. must be a treat to fly with. what percentage of a flight do you bitch about acpa, 100%, 90, 80% ?

Ripple Rock. The MEC is not the driver of ACPA. It used to be. Now ACPA inc decides what is going to happen and then feeds the MEC selective information to get the vote result ACPA inc wants.

If you want your union back, you’ll have to take it back.

There are enough elections over the next 18 months to take it back.

Focus on that

do you think if majority votes back in current reps/status quo, we can drop the whole alpa and p4c?

[altiplano]

The MEC is not the driver of ACPA. It used to be. Now ACPA inc decides what is going to happen and then feeds the MEC selective information to get the vote result ACPA inc wants.

Does ‘ACPA inc’ meet in a secret underground chamber?

No.

They meet in that sweet multimillion dollar reno'd HQ that we paid for. Shit, some of them haven't even darkened a doorway in years and just send emails or zoom in.

ACPA is in it for ACPA as in the association itself. They are not in it for Air Canada Pilots. We just pay for it, that's all.

A disconnect has formed in that we as the Pilots are no longer the Association. The Association in its staff and the leaders in place interpret their duty and concern as only protecting and ensuring the contributed viability of themselves.

That means the continued milking of us, their cash cow, with the least resistance to that cash stream possible and that means pandering to the corporation, not rocking the boat, never pushing back. Just keep those dues coming in, stay in the good books with their management partners.

[a220hereicome]

…some of them haven't even darkened a doorway in years and just send emails or zoom in.

Well maybe somebody has been living in an underground chamber for the last eighteen months. You’ve just described the majority of office workplaces around the globe. The ACPA offices have been closed since the start of the pandemic, and staff and ACPA members have been carrying on virtually. This demonstrates rot and corruption to you?

[RippleRock]

Geez you guys with your street smarts are too clever for stupid me, one of the MEC members...I give up....

you're so paranoid and so wound up in your conspiracy theories that you seem to think everyone who contradicts your neurotic and narcissistic thinking is an MEC member....

you couldn't be farther from the truth...never served in any union position ever at any company

just a member of the "fucking clueless group" who is entertained by you clowns

Exactly. Those that "actually pay attention" and care about the direction we are headed are branded as "conspiracy theorists".

I already explained why I wouldn't enter that toxic cesspool. Read it again if you're still confused.

It doesn't take much to track the history of ACPA's divisive, concessionary path since 2011. Nothing leads to weakness faster than internal division. The latest "drive" to carve off the Cargo division is a prime example, but only a small part of a long list. Why exactly are we the first to step up to "save the Corp"??? We were first in line with our beloved pay LET. Practically tripping over ourselves to give as fast as we could. It was pathetic. The other union groups stood back for a moment and assessed the situation. We could debate endlessly about whether or not we actually "saved jobs", but to think any "give" on the pilots behalf actually sways corps manning decision is naive at best. The latest "thank you" that was exclusively reserved for Management while 600 ACPA members try to make ends meet working as Amazon delivery drivers pounded home exactly what is going on. Who the MEC is trying to impress resonates in ACPA's silence on the matter.



Guys like me won't alter things much, but my dues give me the right to bitch about it.

[altiplano]

…some of them haven't even darkened a doorway in years and just send emails or zoom in.

Well maybe somebody has been living in an underground chamber for the last eighteen months. You’ve just described the majority of office workplaces around the globe. The ACPA offices have been closed since the start of the pandemic, and staff and ACPA members have been carrying on virtually. This demonstrates rot and corruption to you?

I said "years" not the last year. And it's not 18 months since the pandemic, it's 14 months.

You've obviously been in an underground chamber longer than that. Do you know where everyone on the bankroll lives? I know where a few of them are and it's nowhere near an ACPA office or AC Pilot base.

Rot and corruption are your words... and it's there...

But my post was in reference to who the association and it's staff is "- ACPA inc" - was referenced, and whose interests it serves. It serves itself, not the members, we just pay the dues.

Write the MEC Chair and ask him who they interpret it is when you read a line referencing "ACPA" in the Constitution. "ACPA" is the association, not the membership, and ACPA is more important and more deserving of protection than the membership.

The staff and current elected leadership believe and they are being councilled that their actions and duties are to serve the association ahead of the membership.

The association is not the membership under current interpretation and application.

Have I explained it enough ways for you to understand that?

[Fanblade]

The MEC is not the driver of ACPA. It used to be. Now ACPA inc decides what is going to happen and then feeds the MEC selective information to get the vote result ACPA inc wants.

Does ‘ACPA inc’ meet in a secret underground chamber?

No.

They meet in that sweet multimillion dollar reno'd HQ that we paid for. Shit, some of them haven't even darkened a doorway in years and just send emails or zoom in.

ACPA is in it for ACPA as in the association itself. They are not in it for Air Canada Pilots. We just pay for it, that's all.

A disconnect has formed in that we as the Pilots are no longer the Association. The Association in its staff and the leaders in place interpret their duty and concern as only protecting and ensuring the contributed viability of themselves.

That means the continued milking of us, their cash cow, with the least resistance to that cash stream possible and that means pandering to the corporation, not rocking the boat, never pushing back. Just keep those dues coming in, stay in the good books with their management partners.

Thanks for the backup Alto. Perhaps my use of ACPA inc wasn't really read properly. But you nailed it in the part that is bold.

ACPA operates in the best interest of ACPA. The fiduciary duty is to ACPA, not the membership.

It's a structural problem that is almost impossible to undue.